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» 8mm Forum   » 8mm Forum   » Elmo GS1200 Halogen VS Elmo GS Xenon -My thoughts!

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Author Topic: Elmo GS1200 Halogen VS Elmo GS Xenon -My thoughts!
Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 26, 2004 05:40 PM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have owned both machines and I have to say that for home viewing, I really prefer the halogen. As much as I loved the light of the Xenon, the machine with its fan was very loud to my ears. Also, now I don't have to worry about burning out the bulb. And this machine that I just picked up (Thanks Jan Fett!) is in truly awesome condition. It looks brand new and it has all the accessories that came with the machine. (Minus the short stereo film)
This New Old Machine is very quiet, purrs like a kitten, is razor sharp (Put my 1.0 lens on this), sound is truly hi-fi, and the speed is perfect. No wavering, or warbling. After having so many second hand machines that were in very good condiition, it is so nice to have one that is as good as brand new. And it came wtih the remote, 2x1200 ft Elmo Reels, 800 ft reel, and the Attachment viewer.
I just watched reel one of Pinocchio and everything is perfect!

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Ronnie Coeuhant
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: San Jose, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004

- posted March 26, 2004 09:29 PM      Profile for Ronnie Coeuhant   Email Ronnie Coeuhant   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's a refreshing news. Us, without Xenons, love what we are hearing here. I guess it goes to say too that the old and new versions of GS-1200 makes no difference if both are working perfectly?

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Steven Sigel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 701
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 26, 2004 10:14 PM      Profile for Steven Sigel   Email Steven Sigel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I must say that I completely disagree with Rik -- (sorry Rik) -- I find the halogens way too dim, and way too yellow... I think Xenon is an order of magnitude better.

Oh, and BTW - as soon as Alan G. verifies that the Superior lamp is working, you'll be able to get xenon lamps for the GS for $204. That's a 2000 hr lamp fpr $200 vs an ESC which is 50 hrs for $25 or more, or an EJL which is more like 50 hrs for $10 -- which works out to $400 for 2000 hrs for the EJLS....

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Chris Quinn
Master Film Handler

Posts: 372
From: England, Bedfordshire.
Registered: Nov 2003

- posted March 27, 2004 03:10 AM      Profile for Chris Quinn     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Alan,
I have had the pleasure in seeing Mr Elmo's Xenon, and i must say that the projected image is far superior to the standard halogen GS1200, Watching a film on the standard GS, and then switching over to the Xenon, it was completely different. The Xenon lamp pulls out all the colours in the film and you don't get the yellow tint that the halogen produces.
Saying all that i will have to be content with my standard GS as the Xenon is way beyond my pocket. [Frown]

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The other half thinks i'm up to something. Shes right of course.

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 27, 2004 07:32 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well of course the Xenon lamp will be brighter and whiter! But that is when you are comparing them side by side. Most people, including myself, will not say, hmm....that picture on screen is a little yellow..
You will really only notice IF you are seeing them side by side. I havent had a Xenon in about 5 months and I wasn't really sure what to expect going back to the halogen.
The first thing I noticed was the sound of the machine. Quieter? Much Quieter than the Xenon. The Xenon is really loud with the extra fan.
The second thing I noticed was the quality of the sound reproduction. Since this machine was pretty brand new, I have to say that this was the best sound I have heard come from all my previous GS machines. Very clean and crisp. And since the machine was quieter, there was no need to turn it up as much as I was doing with the Xenon.
The picture was very sharp as well. And not once did I say, "Man, I wish I had that Xenon" In fact, when the reel was over I totally forgot that the machine was halogen. Really!
I know it is normal for all of us to keep wanting the best, the best, etc. Me too! The Xenon was primarily made for auditorium use. Im saying for your home, with you and the machine about 10-15 feet away from you, I would rather have a clean working Halogen machine! Dont get me wrong, if I found another Xenon cheap, I might get one, but I don't think the halogen owners out there are missing that much.
Since we were talking about the different versions of the GS in another thread, I was a little saddened to know that this machine was one of the the first models produced. But I guess it is like a used car. If the machine has been maintained (Or better yet, never used!) then it will potentially be the best machine you have ever owned. I mean, this is cleaner then my first GS and the sound is rock steady, every film I have put through this thing (about 20 now!) comes out the other side nice and quiet. No scratches.
If you are fortunate enough to have a GS, enjoy!

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 27, 2004 08:26 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Allan

I think I can see both sides of this argument, I haven't yet had the pleasure of seeing Kevs' Xenon in action but I think we might be getting together at some point in the summer with the Lightwater chaps so I will reserve proper judgement 'til then. [Wink]

I have no doubt that what Chris and everyone who expound the virtues of the Xenon say is true, I quite believe the colours will be truer, the image brighter and the whites whiter, I am sure also that for auditorium use the Xenon must really come into its own and stand out from the halogen model but as I sit in my dining room with my humble halogen model projecting onto a 5ft wide screen I don't hanker for more light [or noise], infact I still mainly keep it set to the low lamp position.

For once I'm happy with what I've got [Smile]

Mike.

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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David Michael Leugers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Fairfield, OH, USA
Registered: Feb 2004

- posted March 27, 2004 09:17 AM      Profile for David Michael Leugers   Email David Michael Leugers   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have the makings to convert my Elmo 1200HD to a Marc 300 lamp. I have the power supply and the bulb holder etc. Now I am probably way out to lunch here, but can the Marc 300 power supply be used for a Xenon bulb? I would appreciate any info or comments on this. I am intrigued by a Xenon bulb that can be had for $200 and last 2,000 hours!

David M. Leugers

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Live Free or Die

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 27, 2004 10:07 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike,
After having gone "round" the ultra elite projectors...I have to say that I am finally happy with what Ive got as well! In the past ive always dreamed about the xenons, the Bauer's, the Beaulieus....but now I have come full circle.
I feel a good working GS is perfect for me. Nice low noise, bright sharp picture...sigh.**** [Smile]

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Ugo Grassi
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 506
From: Avellino (Italy)
Registered: Dec 2003

- posted March 27, 2004 01:37 PM      Profile for Ugo Grassi     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Alan,
what's the dimension of the screen where you project with your elmo Xenon?
This morning I was in Rome to meet some others filmakers. We projected a Derann film too: the Beauty and the Beast. We used an elmo HTI like mine (I made two twins projectors: one for me and the other for Gianni my friend) on two metres screen.
1000 lux for two metres screen= 250 lux. Too much.
After the projection I had dolor to my eyes, but the most important problem was the sharpness. If there is too much light on screen you loose alot of sharpness.
I think two metres screen is small for the original Elmo Xenon too.

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Bye
Ugo

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 27, 2004 09:32 PM      Profile for John Whittle   Email John Whittle       Edit/Delete Post 
David,

No the Marc300 lamp holder and supply cannot be used for a xenon lamp. The marketing advantage to the Marc300 was you could use it in an existing design. A xenon lamp takes a reflector designed for the lamp and the aperture and the projector. You also need a heat filter, different striking, etc etc.

It's true given enough money and equipment you can build anything, converting a Marc300 into a xenon is something within the reach of Bill Gates, not the rest of us.

John

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 28, 2004 12:41 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was using a throw of about 20-25ft and the picture was about 2 meters wide regular or about 10 feet wide for cinemascope.

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Chris Quinn
Master Film Handler

Posts: 372
From: England, Bedfordshire.
Registered: Nov 2003

- posted March 28, 2004 05:58 AM      Profile for Chris Quinn     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike,
I find it hard to believe why you want to have the GS on the lower lamp setting, i also project on to a 5ft screen and i wouldn't dream of projecting on the low lamp setting. [Confused]
As far as the noise issue, i don't think that i noticed it that much, yes it is noisier but i found that i paid no attention after a while.
I must say though that some GS1200's have a very noisy 1st sprocket shoe, clattering away, now that is annoying, [Mad] fortunately my is super quite, thanks to Mr Elmo. [Wink]

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The other half thinks i'm up to something. Shes right of course.

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 28, 2004 07:09 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmmm... Chris, I think I need to get Mr Elmo to have a look at my first sprocket shoe but he appears to have disappeared, Kev, where are you [Confused]

I really am happy with the low lamp setting, sorry. [Frown]

Mike [Wink]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 28, 2004 04:59 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry guys but I have had other things to contend with just recently (non cine related - personal)
The first sprocket is noisey on some of these machines and it can be cured by inserting a thin piece of paper(s) under the sprocket disc to move the sprocket disc out from the wheel itself.
If you undo the centre screw and remove the disc cover and sprocket disc you will probably find a brass shim. You have to basically make up further shims from thin paper and place them behind the disc untill all is quiet. [Smile]
I hope that makes sense? Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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David Michael Leugers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Fairfield, OH, USA
Registered: Feb 2004

- posted March 28, 2004 07:36 PM      Profile for David Michael Leugers   Email David Michael Leugers   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John

Thanks for the info! Yeah, I knew I was nuts on this one!
Still, I think I will eventually do the mod to my Elmo. Anyone
still using the Marc 300 for their illumination?

David M. Leugers

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Live Free or Die

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Ugo Grassi
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 506
From: Avellino (Italy)
Registered: Dec 2003

- posted March 29, 2004 07:15 AM      Profile for Ugo Grassi     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Marc 300 is the lamp of the Fumeo 9139. I don't like this lamp. It works for 50 h. only. I remember there was a converted Elmo GS equipped with a Marc 300 in the Wittner store.
Anyway this lamp gives overheating problems.

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Bye
Ugo

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 29, 2004 11:02 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hurray! kev's back!! [Razz]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 30, 2004 12:10 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I do admit that when I saw John Clancy's Xenon I was very taken with the picture and compared to the standard GS there did seem to be a world of difference but this is a very personal thing.

Last night I ran some of the sound of music on the GS800 with its meagre 100w bulb on a scope screen and to be honest it ran very well despite the lack of power. It was the first time I had run that machine in a few months and I thought I would be disappointed with the light output but I wasn't.

Tony

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Tony

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 30, 2004 04:26 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Mike, I have been building a super fast PC which gave me some hassle and also have changed over to broadband. Unfortunately the PC's motherboard has a fault and will have to be replaced so there could be another "Blackout"
Personal life is also split between film, me and etc. at the moment. I do get to the forum to read the input but dont allways get time to reply. [Frown]

Kev [Smile]

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 31, 2004 02:02 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is a simple way to avoid any overheating caused by the Marc 300 lamp and that is to engage the pause button every time the projector is stopped. That way the fan still blows on the lamp and prevents the overheating.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Ugo Grassi
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 506
From: Avellino (Italy)
Registered: Dec 2003

- posted April 08, 2004 07:10 AM      Profile for Ugo Grassi     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi John,
excuse me if I answer now. I din't see before your message.
The Mark 300 gives more heat than the HTI (confirmed by technical information on these two lamps).
In a Fumeo 9139 (with Mark 300) of a friend after 20 minutes the belt was dilated for the heat. In the 9143 (HTI) it doesn't happen.
I don't know if for an Elmo Gs converted with a Mark 300 there are heating problems. Anyway when you convert this machine you have to modify the fun supply, because the fun always has to run.

--------------------
Bye
Ugo

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted April 08, 2004 11:43 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Ugo

Don't know anything about Xenons but have to agree that the fun always has to run and it will be a terrible day for this hobby if the fun runs dry! [Big Grin]

Mike

ps. Did you mean fan? [Smile]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Ugo Grassi
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 506
From: Avellino (Italy)
Registered: Dec 2003

- posted April 08, 2004 11:52 AM      Profile for Ugo Grassi     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
ahahahaha... I made a mistake...
I'm red for the shame!
ahahaha.. Yes "fan" not fun!

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Bye
Ugo

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