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Author Topic: High powered ST1200HD!?! 200W!?!1500W!?!
James E. Stubbs
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 104
From: Portland, OR
Registered: Apr 2007

- posted August 11, 2008 04:51 AM      Profile for James E. Stubbs   Email James E. Stubbs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since I've had my ST-1200HD, (first one was just an H. Couldn't resist an HD since it has stereo capabilites externally), I've wondered about putting the 200W bulb of the GS1200 into it. Anyone every actully tried/ done this sucessfully? Will the bulb just plug right in w/o modification? What about air flow/heat? I've noticed if I leave the side panel open during projection besides being a bit louder, there's significantly more airflow thorugh the lamphouse. Would this keep the bulb cool enough?
I read in issue #13 of S8 Today about Brett Kasmere's 1500watt ST-1200 used during the SOS event. How the heck did he do this? Were the ever actually made this way? A Xenon ST-1200?

Ideally I'd like to go the simplest rout of just putting a 200W bulb in place of the existing 150W. Any comments/ideas on the subject are much appriciated.
Cheers,

--------------------
James E. Stubbs
Consultant, Vagabond, Traveler.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

- posted August 11, 2008 06:04 AM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi James well if you put in a xenophot with their extra 20% light it will be like 180 watt anyway.
Far better to then also add a nice xenovaron 1,1 lens and the light and pic will be superb and no tinkering on volatges or external power sources etc.
Best Mark.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted August 11, 2008 06:21 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
James

Where are you going to get your extra voltage?

The ST-1200HD bulb is 15 volts, whereas the GS-1200 bulb is 24 volts.

--------------------
Maurice

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 11, 2008 06:47 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
These days it's difficult to get the genuine ESC 200W lamp which was designed for the super8 gate. The EJL 200W lamp which most people use in the GS is designed for the 16mm gate so some light is lost in the GS.
I think Mark is right it would be better to use the 150W Xenophot with its 20% extra light than to go to all the bother of using the 200W lamp with an external transformer especially if it's not the genuine ESC.

I think the other conversion you were talking about was a Xenon job with an external supply and extra fans for cooling.
It would be possible to go down that route by buying the parts required from Say Wittners in Germany and use an HTI lamp similar to the conversion John Clancy had done on his GS1200. Its always important to make sure the machine has got the required cooling otherwise the lamp and gate will suffer as well as your precious film.

Tom Photiou I think did a conversion on an ST1200 to allow a 2 blade shutter to be used.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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James E. Stubbs
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 104
From: Portland, OR
Registered: Apr 2007

- posted August 12, 2008 08:01 PM      Profile for James E. Stubbs   Email James E. Stubbs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for your comments. I didn't even know that there was a voltage difference between the lamps. It seems obvious the best bet is the xenophot lamp. Simple.... Where do I get one? Also I have an Elmo f1.3 zoom lens which is eating a litlle light. Obviously an f1.1 lens would be better. What's a decent lens that I can have for not a large amount of money? I'd love to change to a two bladed shutter, but I shoot a lot of film at 18 fps and it would flicker badly. My thought on that is reserve my ST180E for 18fps even though it's not as bright. Can I put a brighter bulb in my ST-180?
Thanks,

--------------------
James E. Stubbs
Consultant, Vagabond, Traveler.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 13, 2008 05:06 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
A 1.1 lens will certainly give you a significant increase so is well worth looking for.

I think my answer would be the same as above for any light conversion. First you have to arrange for an external power source and then again you must make sure you have good cooling for the extra light/heat. With the internal supply of 12V the max wattage lamp available is 100W.

At the end of the day to take an ST600/180 to say a 150W lamp I think would be a worthless exercise as it would be better to use an ST1200 with the already extra lumens but with the added advantage of the 1200ft spool capacity. A 1.1 or even 1.0 lens is the way forward with the 1200 series.

What I have done with my own ST600D M-O is to put a 2 blade shutter in the machine which really does make a difference. Couple this with the 100W Xenophot and f1.1 lens and you do get quite a good light output from it.

My ST600 can show a 4ft wide picture with good screen brightness with the curtains still open. That I think is good going but obviously I cant use it to show 18fps film because of the flicker. An alternative is to fit one of the adjustable 2/3 blade shutters that Wittners in Germany sell. This will then allow the machine to run at 18fps without the extra flicker.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

- posted August 13, 2008 05:12 PM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi James always use xenophot bulbs in the elmo 100 watt and 150 watt machines 231 and 232 bulbns respectively not just brighter but alittle whiter too, but do check when you buy them that the bulb is set nice and central in the in the fixer and therefore in the dead center of the reflector, makes a hec of a lot of difference if they are out a bit.

Best Mark.

http://cgi.ebay.com/EFP-X-64629-MR16-100W-MR-16-bulb-lamps-Stage-lighting_W0QQitemZ370076090770QQihZ024QQcategoryZ29944QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2 el1247QQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 13, 2008 05:19 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Thats a good price too [Smile]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

- posted August 13, 2008 05:24 PM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
http://cgi.ebay.com/EFR-5-X-MR16-150W15V-EFR-64620-MR-16-bulb-lamp-lighting_W0QQitemZ140256613970QQihZ004QQcategoryZ29944QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118 Q2el1247

these appear to be long life but they also do cheaper but Id try this one as great value.
Best Mark.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 13, 2008 11:07 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry for a silly question:

Is Xenon = Xenophot?

If it is two different things, then if Xenophot gives an extra 20% light then how much does Xenon give an extra light?

cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted August 14, 2008 03:00 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A good source in the UK for all Xenophot lamps at reasonable prices is Bristol Cine Sales at Bernard Hunter Ltd. Ask for Andrew Nicholls.

Their website is www.aavon.com/bristolcine.html

I thoroughly recommend them. Andrew is always a mine of information and very helpful.

--------------------
Maurice

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 14, 2008 10:16 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Where can you buy Xenophots in the USA? Nobody here seems to list them.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
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- posted August 14, 2008 10:43 AM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the links should take you there paul.
Best Mark.

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 14, 2008 10:53 AM      Profile for Gary Crawford     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
paul, Steve Osborne of Reel Image sells those xeno's. And just about anything else you'd need.

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 14, 2008 02:55 PM      Profile for John Whittle   Email John Whittle       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:

Is Xenon = Xenophot?

If it is two different things, then if Xenophot gives an extra 20% light then how much does Xenon give an extra light?
A Xenon lamp is a totally different item. It's a small arc enclosed in a special glass tube. When the arc is created it excites xenon gas to produce a bright white light. These lamps require very special power supplies that have to provide an extremely high voltage to create the spark and then a low dc voltage very stable at high amperage to run the lamp. This is the type of lamp used in local theatres (cinemas) through out the world.

The Xenophot lamp is of typical construction with special gasses and produces a brighter whiter light than a regular halogen bulb. It runs in the same place with same cooling and same power supply.

Xenon lamps and power supplies come in many ratings. Most are compared by wattage. In 16mm for example, the difference between a projector with a two blade shutter running a ELC (halogen type)lamp (250 watt) at 3200 degress kelvin and a machine with a 300 watt xenon lamp at 5400 degress kelvin is about six times as much light. There are many things to take into account such as screen gain, darkness of room, speed of projection lens (i.e. f/1.3 vs f/2.5), etc. But general lamp output is measured with an open gate, projector running, no film and the screen is read in foot lamberts. The standard illumination at the screen should be 16 ft/lamberts. This does not take into account screen gain but does screen size.

All in all a very engineering deep subject.

John

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Graham Sinden
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1131
From: Kent, UK
Registered: Aug 2005

- posted August 14, 2008 05:17 PM      Profile for Graham Sinden   Email Graham Sinden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Am I right that you cant buy a xenophot for the GS (200W 24V). And if not why not? Surely the construction is much the same?

And for 16mm, I think you can get a xenophot 250W in a peanut bulb but not the reflector type. Is this also true?

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted August 17, 2008 11:20 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Graham

The GS-1200 bulbs are ESC but I don't know if they are available in xenophot. My blue boxes just have "Fujilamp" on them.

Regarding the little 16mm lamp you refer to, the A1/223, xenophots are available @ £3.49. See my entry for 14 August.

A friend of mine used to buy these as they so cheap and cement them into the reflectors of "duff" A1/259 bulbs.

--------------------
Maurice

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

- posted August 17, 2008 05:09 PM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just easier to buy the 259 surely as seem to last well enough, (yes you can get the 259 xenophot ones).
A good saving though I suppose.

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James E. Stubbs
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 104
From: Portland, OR
Registered: Apr 2007

- posted August 26, 2008 11:24 PM      Profile for James E. Stubbs   Email James E. Stubbs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well I've looked everywhere. A place in Atlanta, GA sells them if you buy 10. I've found a few on Amazon, but I'm uncertian which is the correct one. Is this it? Osram Sylvania EFR-5/X 64620 HLX Bulb.. Or this one? EFR 64634 HLX light bulb Osram
Or this one? Osram EFR-5 Lamp (54211) This is the page I found them on:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=osram+efr
Or this one...http://www.replacementlightbulbs.com/lampefr.html

I really want the Xenophot brigtness...
Let me know which is the correct xenophot.
james_e69 at comcast dot com
Cheers

--------------------
James E. Stubbs
Consultant, Vagabond, Traveler.

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Antoine Orsero
Master Film Handler

Posts: 374
From: marseille france
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 27, 2008 03:58 AM      Profile for Antoine Orsero   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I thought BRISTOLCINE had closed!

I see it still works!

I bought a lot of equipment at home before closing!

--------------------
Tony

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted August 27, 2008 05:04 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Antoinne

There was many years ago in Bristol a firm called "Bristol Cine Services" who operated from a shop in Alma Vale Road, Clifton, Bristol. I am not sure when then eventually closed.

The "new" Bristol Cine goes under the name of Bernard Hunter Limited, but still uses "Bristol Cine."

James

I have just spoken with Andrew at Bristol Cine and he tells me that he ships all over the world. He also says that only OSRAM make xenophot lamps. The lamps shown on your Atlanta site say they are medical lamps and do not seem do be actually Osram. They show ribbing on the reflector which doesn't seem right.

Send Andrew Nichols an email at aavon dot com at aol dot com and I am sure he will help. If necessary he will accept PayPal.

Or, if you wish to use the Bristol Cine "Buy It Now" on eBay, the item number is 270245267673.

[ August 27, 2008, 06:26 AM: Message edited by: Maurice Leakey ]

--------------------
Maurice

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Antoine Orsero
Master Film Handler

Posts: 374
From: marseille france
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 27, 2008 08:43 AM      Profile for Antoine Orsero   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dear Maurice,
You're right
I am confused with Spondon
Please Excuse me

Best regards

--------------------
Tony

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James E. Stubbs
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 104
From: Portland, OR
Registered: Apr 2007

- posted August 27, 2008 08:53 PM      Profile for James E. Stubbs   Email James E. Stubbs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I found this site on my side of the pond. I emailed them and this was theri reply. Thier catolog also specifically listed my unit as well as many others as being the correct bulb. Likely an excellent source of projection bulbs in the US. The exchange rate would be murder buying from the UK. I've also found a place here in Portland OR called Sunlan Lighting that's supposed to have every conceivable bulb on earth. I'll find out tomorrow.

Hello James,

The Xenophot is an Osram term for their EFR. Below is the link to the EFR which we do carry the Osram brand.

http://www.replacementlightbulbs.com/lampefr.html

Thank you,

Kat
Replacement Light Bulbs

Cheers,

--------------------
James E. Stubbs
Consultant, Vagabond, Traveler.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted August 28, 2008 05:19 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
James

At a price of $6.95 I can't believe that the "Replacement Light Bulbs"s lamp is a xenophot.

I should ask them to clarify that they are definitely xenophot before you buy.

Xenophots are always dearer than the bog-standard lamp.

--------------------
Maurice

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 28, 2008 09:43 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think Maurice is correct. No way will you get a premium performance lamp at that price. Clearly, the supplier does not understand that the Xenophot is a special kind of lamp.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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