8mm Forum: Pathe Son

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Topic: Pathe Son

Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted April 07, 2017 03:58 PM

I had to share this with 9.5 lovers and the only way I have found to give visual images here is to list it on eBay and then copy it to this forum.
I bought this Son a few weeks ago and was absolutely delighted with the cosmetic condition. Even the case, which normally suffers, is in near perfect condition. I am probably not alone in my quest to find projectors in excellent condition and considering this is from the 50's, I doubt that there is better anywhere.
I have seen these advertised (and in the flesh) in abismal condition and been dumbfounded by the price they fetch, so I have purposely listed this at a VERY high price to avoid it being sold.
Just wanted to share with you and hear your comments.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332177016561?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2648

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted April 07, 2017 04:18 PM

Fantastic condition, indeed. Congratulations ! I hope nobody will click on the "Buy it now" button [Smile]

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Dominique

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted April 07, 2017 04:43 PM

Thanks Dom
Me too! Perhaps I should have put a higher price on it [Confused]

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Clinton Hunt
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 845
From: Waharoa,North Island,New Zealand
Registered: May 2010

posted April 09, 2017 10:42 PM

That's a beautiful projector.
As you said,working 9.5mm projectors in good condition are getting harder to find.
If I was filthy rich and I wanted it at any cost then I'd buy it [Smile]

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Cheers from me in New Zealand :-)

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 19, 2017 07:53 PM

Stunning looking machine! But why does the SON have such a bad reputation?

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted April 20, 2017 10:03 AM

The SON was developed from the GEM which was a silent projector. Probably its motor was never conceived for continually running at 24fps hence its often short life when in the SON due to burning out.

9.5mm silent films are designed to come off the feed spool in an anti-clockwise direction, but 9.5 sound films come off the front of the spool which revolves in a clockwise direction. Thus, sound films on the SON have an awkward approach to the gate, even with the later fitted extra roller.

The governor always seemed to give trouble and not control the speed at 24fps. This meant continually using the sliding resistance lever as the motor warmed up during the first reel or so.

At £78, the SON was designed to sell, which it did, but if more thought had gone into it and with better components it could have been an excellent start to collecting 9.5mm sound.

But, no doubt, the price would have had to be increased which might have been a deterrent.

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Maurice

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Ken Finch
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 543
From: Herne Bay, Kent. U.K.
Registered: Oct 2011

posted April 21, 2017 01:13 PM

Maurice omitted to mention that the amplifier was also very poor. Corners were cut with many of the components and required frequent repair. Motors failed because they were over volted in order to maintain the sound speed of 24f.p.s. Ken Valentine could confirm the information about it as he worked for the repair department at Pathescope. The original design was very good but corners were cut in order to make it an attractive purchase as Maurice stated. It sold at less than half the price of the PAX which also had its faults with its poorly designed and obsolete sound head smoothing system. Ken Finch.

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted April 21, 2017 05:13 PM

I think the problems of the motor were exaggerated by the use of the awful thick drive belt which overtensioned the motor making it less efficient and putting unnecessary stress on the motor mounts.I agree that the governor is a problem but projectionists should always be closely in charge of the controls so no big deal to adjust the motor speed during a show. Nearly every Son or Gem I have seen have misaligned inching knobs caused by the disintegrated rubber mounts not helped by the over tight original thick drive belt. New Nitrile belts overcome this problem if the rubber mounts are still good.
Amplifier recapping and modifications are necessary but the Son still remains iconic for all its faults. The Mark 2 is certainly far superior. The one I have is in fantastic almost new condition and I would never contemplate gutting it just to maintain the outward appearance. Does not make historic or economic sense to me.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 25, 2017 10:54 PM

Did Pathescope design any good equipment? [Roll Eyes]

Seems that all their projectors and cameras have one problem or another. I purchased a PAT camera in 1956 and the results were truly awful, poor image and constantly jamming chargers. That experience spurred my departure from 9.5mm to 8mm where high quality top performing equipment was the norm. I think the company really hastened the demise of 9.5mm by virtue of the poor equipment they sold. I will say though that the ACE was a solid little design well done for its intended purpose.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted April 26, 2017 02:45 AM

The Pat camera was another Pathescope product designed to sell at a reasonable price. I have a 1954 price list which shows it was selling for £13/18/3, far less than the Motocamera H with an f/2.5 lens which was £26/10/0.
You could, of course, pay £198/15/0 for the Pathe Webo Special.

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Maurice

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted April 27, 2017 12:05 PM

There is plenty of good equipment by Pathe that has survived many years and don't forget 9.5 film predates 8mm by a good few years and was the first and only affordable home film guage of the time. The Pathe Baby was an ingenious machine and many still survive in working condition today. The 200b is also a great projector that turns up regularly in working condition.
I'm sure that Grahame Newnham (THE 9.5 guage authority ) would give you a list of many more examples. I love this guage not only because the picture definition is comparable to 16mm but also for all it's quirkiness.

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted May 17, 2017 04:19 AM

I have a SON in my collection but it needs a service and work on the amplifier. I know it has a dodgy reputation.

How can I identify it as a Mark 1 or 2 ?

Is it worth having it serviced and if yes who will do it for me in the UK ?

Or better still "updating " it ?

Your thoughts Gentlemen please ! [Wink]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted May 18, 2017 03:36 AM

David
The Mk1 used large octel type valves whereas the Mk2 used smaller valves like the ones shown in the photos of my listing. The Mk.1 suffered overheating because of the heat generated by the old large valves which I believe caused other problems. If you have the Mk1 then I don't think it would be cost effective to upgrade, but if it is the Mk2 it should be a reasonable cost to get the amplifier upgraded with modern capacitors and resistors. I got mine done for £70 and it works well now. Any proficient radio engineer should be able to help you.
The Son is not the best 9.5 sound projector, but it is an iconic looking machine for all it's shortfalls.

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted May 22, 2017 05:51 PM

Terry thank you for that advice. I will check and see which
one I have. [Smile]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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