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Author Topic: 9,5mm sound projector
Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted September 27, 2019 10:33 AM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wanted 9.5mm sound projector, in working order.
Pathé, Heurtier, etc.
Thanks! [Smile]

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Rodney Bourke
Film Handler

Posts: 86
From: Australia
Registered: Jun 2009


 - posted October 04, 2019 05:48 PM      Profile for Rodney Bourke   Email Rodney Bourke   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is a Ligonie 9.5mm Opticle and Magnetic Projector on ebay in France

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/PROJECTEUR-LIGONIE-9-5-MM-OSM-950/323937713677?hash=item4b6c313e0d:g:LJsAAOSwP~Fdl3XU

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted October 05, 2019 01:02 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Keep in mind that the Ligonie gives a reversed picture with optical sound films. This can be fixed by fixing a special mirrored lens on the existing one (but you loose some light) or by using directly a mirror. You'll need anyway to put the projector parallel to the screen.

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Dominique

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted October 05, 2019 01:38 AM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Nice looking projector, but what were they thinking of designing a machine that gives a reversed image?

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted October 05, 2019 03:37 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The ingenior who worked on the design of the projector died before he could find a way to fix the problem. André Ligonie, who was himself not in good health at that time, had no other choice that manufacturing the projector that way. Keep in mind that at that time they were still many filmmakers in 9.5, so there was a demand for a good magnetic sound machine and optical sound was regarded as an extra by some customers. To give you an idea, the two hours projections of the Ciné Club 9,5 de France were only amateur films. Optical sound films came in the programme when the amount of amateur films was no longer enough to fill the projections. Other times...

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Dominique

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted October 05, 2019 06:09 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
According to Grahame Newnham the 9.5mm Ligonie OSM950 was a conversion of the Swiss 16mm Bolex designed by Microtechnica.
This obviously explains the optical sound being in the wrong position.
http://www.pathefilm.uk/95gear/95gearligonie.htm
I have a French 9.5mm conversion of a 16mm Eiki Slimline SNT-3 and this had a terrible conversion regarding the moving of its optical system. It required a lot of work to get it corrected.

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Maurice

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted October 08, 2019 04:54 AM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Nice projector, I knew the optical problem, but not hard problem.
If I had to enter the amount I could think about it...

But do you think it impossible to find a Pathescope Son, other sound Pathé, a Heurtier HSM, other sound Heurtier or similar? Even magnetic sound would be good.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted October 08, 2019 06:14 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You can find Heurtier projectors more easily, especially magnetic only machines. On the three gauges models (the more current), you have to be sure that the 9.5 parts are supplied. You have two kind of magnetic heads system : on some projectors, there is one head that you can use for the three gauges (by Moving a part) or you have different heads. So, you may end with a projector that has the 9.5 gate and spindles but is fitted with a 8 mm head for example. Be aware that you need a specially designed amplificator (and a speaker of course) so that makes the post costs higher.

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Dominique

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted October 08, 2019 09:15 AM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Luigi
Keep away from the Pathe Son. They were built down to a price and as a result they have proved problematic and unreliable, especially the early models. Even the motor is overvolted, so overheats with the risk of burning out. They are a great iconic looking projector, but a poor performer. I have had a couple in the past, but I now have a Buckingham Eiki conversion and am very pleased with it,even though the threading is a little 'fiddly'. The problem is finding one at a reasonable price because they are quite sought after.

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted October 08, 2019 09:34 AM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you all.
Terry, I'll avoid those projectors.
Dom, at the moment, on the internet, I can't find Heurtier with sound. I had seen a Superson without an amplifier (could I fit one?), maybe I could retrieve it.

With a bit of luck, I shouldn't look for pieces like adapters and spindles for the image, since I already have a silent Heurtier (but not all models are compatible with each other).

When the sound head is different for various gauges, I understand (from the manual of the mute version that I have, which also contains information on the sound versions) that one head is for 8mm/9.5mm, is the same, and different one for 16mm.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted October 08, 2019 10:58 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you want a serious 9.5mm sound projector, the only real way to go is a Buckingham Elf conversion. It has the advantage of taking the big spools. But not cheap for a good one.

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Maurice

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted October 09, 2019 02:07 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Other models were converted from 16 mm or super 8 but they don't surface often and were probably made in very few quantity. Here is an example of an Elmo projector (sadly not mine) that has still the 16 mm sign but is now a 9.5 machine.

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Dominique

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted October 09, 2019 02:33 AM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dom
I always wondered why no-one had converted a slot loader. Who did that one? And where did you find it?
Just seen this Buckingham on eBay
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELF-EIKI-BUCKINGHAM-9-5mm-CONVERSION-OPTICAL-SOUND-FILM-PROJECTOR-SERVICED/233363749897?hash=item3655903c09:g:lRIAAOSwiMBdnLLZ
Unfortunately it has 'reserve not met' so who knows what the seller is wanting!

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted October 09, 2019 02:42 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Terry, this projector belongs to a member of the French Club. He took his machine to Limooges last Saturday at the general meeting (held each three years) as there were some projections at the end of the afternoon. I don't know who converted that projector but I will ask.

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Dominique

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted October 09, 2019 03:13 AM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dom
I would love to buy that machine. I wonder if I could live with only one arm and one leg?😬

[ October 09, 2019, 05:16 AM: Message edited by: Terry Sills ]

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted October 09, 2019 03:30 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Buckingham conversion mentioned above on eBay started at £99.95, there is currently one bid who opened the bidding at the same amount.
I can recommend this seller, Martyn Stribling of Basildon. I bought a 16mm Elf RT-0 from him two years ago. It had been fully serviced and is like new.
He is not cheap and normally sells as a Buy It Now, but obviously considers to let this conversion reach a good price over the next few days. It could exceed £500 in my opinion.

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Maurice

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted October 09, 2019 12:22 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The company that converted the projector is MS (in Paris). MS has already been quoted on this forum. They were famous for good quality conversions to 9.5. You had to bring your own machine and they gave it back "ninefived" to you [Smile]

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted October 11, 2019 10:57 AM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Terry, I'd like that machine too, do it halfway? [Smile] Haha. [Smile]
Seriously, if the amount goes up a lot I don't think I can sustain the expense. Terry, if you buy it, I'm curious to know how it is, for a future purchase.

Dom, you don't know if any of the various clubs members give away a 9.5mm conversion at a good price? 1000 euros are a fair price for those machines, of course, but I can't really spend so much just to get only the sound, worst only optical (I already have 3 perfectly silent 9.5mm projectors).

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted October 11, 2019 01:55 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Luigi, the last projector that was sold by (sadly) the widow of a late memeber club costed 1.000 euros. It was a Ligonie (with three speeds 16/18/24 fps). Usually members who own a sound projector have also soubd films they made themselves so they keep their projector.

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Dominique

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted October 11, 2019 02:18 PM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They have also a 9.5mm magnetic sound striped machine? Beautiful, very rare, I remember that you too have it, I don't know if you've found a way to make it work.

Instead the optical sound I know that it is possible to "commission" it (sending a personal audio track) to laboratories for the various formats (16mm etc.), I believe that these laboratories can also do it for 9.5.

Or do they use other methods for their sound films?

Ah, which of these converted machine (Buckingham, Eiki...) is both optical and magnetic? Maurice and Terry, you have optical or magnetic machines?

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted October 11, 2019 02:35 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, I can project 9,5 magnetic sound films but I have few. As far as I know, there are no lab left that strip 9,5 films, however several amateurs have working stripping machine. I have also one but was unsuccessful when I tried to ad a magnetic strip on film.
Converted machines vary from optical playback only to optical/magnetic playback and record. It depends on the projector used for the conversion.

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Dominique

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted October 11, 2019 02:46 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a 9.5mm conversion of an Eiki Slimline SNT-3 which has optical and magnetic sound, the latter both record and playback.
It is not a Buckingham conversion, but was done in France for an owner who filmed on 9.5mm, and after editing, had his films striped for adding sound.

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Maurice

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted October 12, 2019 02:05 AM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Luigi
I was very fortunate in buying a mint condition Buckingham NT2 optical/magnetic from Tony Raepert himself, at an Ealing convention, a good few years ago. I am very happy with it, but to date I have not obtained a single 9.5 film with magnetic sound track.
I will not be bidding on the one on eBay. I was referring to my interest in the converted Elmo CL that Dom has pictures of. That's the one I would really like to get my hands on. No 'fiddly' film threading. I doubt there are many of those about though.
Good luck in your search, but a good conversion will not be cheap
[Frown] [Frown]

[ October 12, 2019, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: Terry Sills ]

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Luigi Castellitto
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 715
From: Campobasso, Italy
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted October 15, 2019 04:02 AM      Profile for Luigi Castellitto   Email Luigi Castellitto   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I hope to find an optical and magnetic projector.
Thank you all.

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