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Author Topic: film guard or film renew
Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1539
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 29, 2003 07:49 AM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
hi everone since we do not have the old fourm to rely on anymore I would just like everybody's opinion on these two cleaners again, and there applications also which is best for the magnetic track and splices? and for 16mm which is best? thanks [Smile]

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4368
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 29, 2003 10:56 AM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jim,
I'm a huge fan of FilmGuard. I'm slowly working through cleaning the entire collection with it, and I'll probably be able to do it using just one container (The instructions say one ounce would clean an entire full length 35mm feature). I believe it does a great job cleaning & conditioning the film and at the same time lubricates the film path as the print is being screened.
I was looking at an old standard 8mm print a while back and the Bolex-Paillard was making a clacking noise in addition to having difficulty maintaining the loop. With the projector still running, I applied FilmGuard to a cloth and gently wrapped it around the film as it was leaving the feed reel. No more loop problems, no more annoying noises.
There are two things to be aware of. If you run a film right after application there will be some slight streaking on the image. This will vanish by the second run or if the film is allowed to air dry. Normally I clean a print the day before a screening.
The second bit has to do with tape splices. If too much FilmGuard is applied, the splice will come off. When cleaning, I'm very careful not to overdue it.
Another nice quality that FilmGuard has is that the protective coating is good for approximately one year!
Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 29, 2003 04:14 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
The Cresclean product that Phil sells at Classic Home Cinema is in my opinion just as good as FilmRenew. It has two advantages as far as I can see and that is that it doesnt attack plastic and doesnt cause tape splices to fall apart. It has completely removed some light scratches on a couple of my films and makes noisy green film just glide through my GS1200.
Worth a try and no I dont get anything from Phil for saying all this. It's just that I have tried a number of cleaner/lubricants over the years and this is now my all round favourite. [Smile]
Kevin.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1158
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 30, 2003 02:01 AM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What about VITAFILM? Anyone try it?
Is FILMGUARD safe on magnetic sound tracks?

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1158
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 30, 2003 02:02 AM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What about VITAFILM? Anyone try it?
Is FILMGUARD safe on magnetic sound tracks?

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4368
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 30, 2003 09:35 AM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad,
Mag sound prints make up the majority of my collection. I've found the heads actually stay cleaner since using FilmGuard.
The FilmGuard site is:
http://www.film-tech.com/filmcleaning/filmguard1.html
Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 30, 2003 04:35 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Again, I go along with what Doug says in that even using the Crescalen product I find that I get far less oxide build up on my GS heads. I think all these lubricants help to keep the stripe smooth so that it glides over the heads better.
Kevin.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1539
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 01, 2003 06:34 AM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great thanks for all your input guys [Smile] [Big Grin] [Razz] [Cool]

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Henry Perangelo
Film Handler

Posts: 33
From: Durham, NC
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 01, 2003 09:01 AM      Profile for Henry Perangelo   Email Henry Perangelo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I use both products. When I get a old print I give it a good cleaning with FilmRenew. This stuff is strong. If the print has a "twist" or "curl" I reverse wind and soak the print in FilmRenew anywhere from 4 weeks to 6 months (depending how bad it is). This soaking may cause splices to release, which in my opinion; is good because I like to replace all splices on a print I purchase. Once the print is "clean", I only use FilmGuard once every 6 months (or so). I feel FilmGuard is the best product for maintaining a good running print. I even apply FilmGuard to new prints.

-Henry-

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Richard Clark
Junior
Posts: 27
From: london
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 01, 2003 04:06 PM      Profile for Richard Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have found that SILICONE OIL is very good at lubricating film and it also mixes with isopropanal so that it can be used as a cleaner and lubricant for the films .
Apparently Kodak use silicone oil to lubricate films also its optically clear.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

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Richard Clark
Junior
Posts: 27
From: london
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 01, 2003 04:07 PM      Profile for Richard Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have found that SILICONE OIL is very good at lubricating film and it also mixes with isopropanal so that it can be used as a cleaner and lubricant for the films .
Apparently Kodak use silicone oil to lubricate films also its optically clear.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

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Chris Cottrill
Junior
Posts: 14
From: MIamisburg, OH, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 01, 2003 07:46 PM      Profile for Chris Cottrill   Author's Homepage   Email Chris Cottrill   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had a problem with FILMGUARD but to be honest I slopped it on way too heavy. I can get away with that with FILMRENU but not FILMGUARD. Apparently FILMGUARD is very very slick and lubricating and if a film gets too slick it will not hold a steady focus in the projector's gate. This is what happened to me and I had to clean all the stuff off with RTI FILM CLEANER and start over. I used to be a major fan of VITAFILM and am anxious to try it again. Will be happy to give a report once I've tried the new version of it.

When I was a kid we used to use Old English Lemon Furniture Polish (which smells and acts a lot like FILMGUARD). Did anyone else ever try that back in the 70s?

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Chris Cottrill
Super-8 filmmaking Backissues
at www.super8today.net

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1539
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 02, 2003 06:06 AM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
is film gaurd safe to use on polyester films? if not how do you determine if you have this type of film? [Smile]

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 495
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 02, 2003 06:08 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Chris, please read the directions that came with your kit of FilmGuard. If you don't have them I can email them to you. In there it stresses how concentrated FilmGuard is. Remember, 1 ounce is enough to clean a feature length 35mm film. A single quart bottle would probably last an 8mm collector years and years.

Also, if you put it on too thick, you can simply wipe off the excess with a dry cloth between rewinds. There is no need to pull out another cleaner.

FilmGuard does not damage magnetic film, it greatly helps it. It stops the magnetic oxide from flaking off which prevents dropouts. Also it prevents the buildup of oxide on the heads. Combining both of these qualities and you will be able to hear the difference. [Smile]

Yes, FilmGuard is polyester safe.

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 03, 2003 02:29 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage   Email John Clancy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've still got several years supply of Thermofilm left. Anyone found anything that compares with it?

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Antoine Orsero
Master Film Handler

Posts: 365
From: marseille france
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 03, 2003 01:44 PM      Profile for Antoine Orsero   Author's Homepage   Email Antoine Orsero   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Richard,
It has been a long time since I use silicone oil to grease my films. It is without danger for films, it makes them less noisy, the image does not jump and for the magnetic sound films it reduces the wear of the magnetic heads. [Smile]

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Tony

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1326
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 03, 2003 02:08 PM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Obviously sensible precautions should be taken when handling any chemically based product however none of the products I have seen give any indication of the active ingredients.

Does anyone know if there are any particularly harmful substances contained therein?

Tony [Smile]

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Tony

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Richard Clark
Junior
Posts: 27
From: london
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 03, 2003 02:37 PM      Profile for Richard Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thats what i seem to have found Antoine the films seem to run a lot better and when i heard that silicone is inert to film and kodak use it in their cartridges to lubricate film i thought why not try some.
Wonder if anyone else has more comments on this ?

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1539
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 03, 2003 03:51 PM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
how about the dangers of both is one safer to use in a closed area then the other? and what happens to clothing if you spill filmgaurd or renew? [Razz]

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4368
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 03, 2003 05:38 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I find that FilmGuard's incredible cleaning properties cleans even embedded dirt off of my pants and forms a thin protective coating which covers up many rips in the knee area. It's even good on polyester pants.
Sorry Jim, had to go for the joke. [Wink]
Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 03, 2003 07:10 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Doug, It might be better to change your pants daily. [Wink]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1539
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 03, 2003 09:01 PM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Can the small machines be obtained somewhere to do this job right? [Smile]

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4368
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 03, 2003 10:19 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jim,
The device pictured next to the FilmGuard container is a Kelmar dry web media cleaner. Their catalog (without prices) can be found at:
http://www.kelmarsystems.com/pdf/guidance.pdf
I prefer the old cloth in the hand between the rewinds method myself.
Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 495
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 04, 2003 01:09 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
The Kelmar cleaners are easily modified to run 16mm or 8mm film. All you have to do is remove the spacer between the drive wheel's flanges, mount it on the outside of the drive wheel and replace the bolts with longer ones. Then put washers or nuts on the two bolts in between the drive wheel flanges to achieve the proper distance depending on the gauge you want to run. About $2 and 10 minutes of your time.

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Paul Suchy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 199
From: Westchester, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 19, 2003 08:41 PM      Profile for Paul Suchy   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Suchy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I guess I'm the only one who likes the Ecco 1500 Anti-static film cleaner; I "borrowed" some when I was a theatre manager, and it did wonders for my prints. To lubricate black and white prints and gate cleaning, I use XeKote. I heard somewhere that the wax-based cleaners suffocate films by sealing them and not allowing them to breathe-any thoughts on this?

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Paul Suchy

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