8mm Forum: Why did Elmo make optical?

»	8mm Forum » 8mm Forum » Why did Elmo make optical?

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!

Author

Topic: Why did Elmo make optical?

James N. Savage 3
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1375
From: Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2003

posted January 03, 2004 06:41 AM

I have always wondered, why were optical sound projectors produced and sold by Elmo in the 70s/80s? There were no optical sound movie cameras that I know of and the only optical prints around were ex-airline prints, which were not sold to the public. And the airlines used a different kind of projector, not produced by Elmo (I think). Just curious. Nick.

| IP: Logged

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 03, 2004 06:55 AM

Hi James,
In some countries super 8 optical prints were common place. In Germany a lot of advertising and promotional films released on super 8 had Optical sound. I have had a few of these in the past. One was a film about the German railways and another was an advert for a clothes manufacturer. I have even seen a promotional film for Eumig which had optical sound. I also believe that some educational prints were released in this format.
I remember once reading somewhere that optical sound super 8 was used quite a bit in Japan.
I have actually got a Super 8 German release of Bambi Falls in love which is the same as the 200ft version released by Disney here in the UK and US and it has a superb Optical sound track but unfortunately has now turned red.
Hope that starts to answer your questions. Let me finish by saying that if an optical print has been done well and the optics etc are aligned well in the projector that they can sound quite good. I have an optical print of Little Shop of Horrors amongst others and it sounds really good. BTW did you know that Eumig actually produced optical machines as did Fuji. Elmo also produced a super 8 optical only machine in the early days called the ST8.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

| IP: Logged

Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 03, 2004 08:48 AM

Kev,

Fascinating stuff- I still think you should write a book or an article for Film for the Collector.

I have only one optical print-Spaceballs (I guess there are a few out there) and certainly the sound and picture quality are first class, the kids love the spoof as well. Much better than on Video.

Are all the optical prints of similar high quality given that so many were destined for airline use?

--------------------
Tony

| IP: Logged

Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 03, 2004 12:08 PM

I have Bambi Falls In Love, but it is mag sound. Just to let you know, I put Marv Newland's Bambi Meets Godzilla right after it.

:-)

| IP: Logged

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 03, 2004 01:55 PM

Hi Tony,
Yes all the opticals I have seen seem to be very good. I have a copy of Zorro the Gay Blade and that is stunning quality as is one of the Pink Panther films. Even Rising Damp shows how good super 8 Optical sound can be. The optical Airline prints are generally very good. Some earlier prints on SP stock are a little warm but Generally the later ones on thin base Poly LPP are superb still. I had a copy years ago of a German release called "DB" which as I said in my earlier post was about the German Railway and it was stunning. Wish I could find another copy. Another short which springs to mind is a Pathe Pic called Hollywood and again the sound was really good. PM Films here in the UK also released some titles with optical sound. They did a trailer reel which I have got a copy of and it was also very good.
I suppose that if optical sound had become the norm for super 8 then we may have not had some of the Stereo releases which we now have from the likes of Derann etc.
OK Tony, I will be writing some bits and bobs for FFTC at some time in the near future but of course I dont want to tread on Tom's toes. [Wink]

Kev.
PS I think Mike Peckham has quite a few Optical features so maybe he can comment on overall quality.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

| IP: Logged

Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 03, 2004 03:55 PM

Hello Kev' [and everyone]!

Yep, I went through a bit of an optical phase about a year or so ago, I think Lethal Weapon was my first and I was so impressed with the quality that I went on to buy quite a few others.

Some of you chaps will remember that I started a Thread on the old forum listing all the optical prints that were released, I think we got up to 43 features which I was really surprised about. I saved the list but when I went to look for it just now I found that it had dissappeared in a pc crash a little while ago [Frown]

The print quality of these airline releases was fantastic, I remember Derek saying that this was because they were produced by the big film companies so they had access to the best master material. Apparently the majority of them were destroyed purposefully so that they couldn't get into the hands of collectors! As an ironic twist, I mentioned this to my brother quite recently, he worked for Britania Airways from about 1978 until the early 90s', he remembered the stacks of feature films on very large spools or cartridges [?] being taken away probably to be destroyed, such a shame I hadn't discovered this hobby then, I might have been able to get him to liberate a couple [Cool]

Derek did some sort of deal at some point and managed to introduce a number of features into the collectors pool and I suppose these are the ones that we still see coming up from time to time on the lists.

Tom mentioned on another thread that these features were abridged to make them suitable for family viewing, however I think they were done very well and very little seems to have been lost from the ones that I have, I'm sure a true afficianado would be able to identify each lost moment though!

Mike

ps. I'm still on the lookout for 'On Golden Pond' which was an optical release, if any one comes across a copy thats up for sale I'd be pleased to hear about it [Wink]

--------------------
Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

| IP: Logged

John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 04, 2004 07:04 PM

As I recall, optical sound Super8 was a "pet project" of Technicolor and they introduced a cart projector with optical sound. The intended market was educational and Disney produced alot of the education market titles in Super8 in the Technicolor cartridge.

The whole idea was to overcome the manufacturing costs of striping and re-recording prints since the prints would be finished after developing and slitting.

Most (if not all) these titles were produced on continous optical reduction printers from 16mm negatives producing four rows of Super8 images. The resulting film after development was then slit to 8mm with an extra set of perfs discarded on one edge and 1.5mm of waste from the other.

One problem with the system is it is difficult to control side weave and any error in printing or slitting will magnify the problem. The other problem is the cyan fading which results in degrading the optical sound track (which is only dye) as the picture fades (or as some generously say "warms").

John

| IP: Logged

Trevor Adams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 763
From: Auckland,New Zealand
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 04, 2004 07:34 PM

I have a feature,SPEED FEVER,colour/definition are good but the optical sound is atrocious.Guess the track has faded??Trev

--------------------
Trevor

| IP: Logged

All times are Central

Printer-friendly view of this topic

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2