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Author Topic: Film Cleaners
Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 23, 2004 02:57 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is probably stating the obvious but care needs to be taken with these products. I found out just how flammable the new version of Cresclean was last night when the piece of cloth I was using came into contact with a naked flame. It burned readily and with enthusiasm.

Obviously Derann's cleaner contains a high proportion of propanol and by its nature will be flammable but it evaporates quickly and is less of an issue than Cresclean.

Also,if Cresclean contains paraffin then there should really be a health warning on the product as this is known to cause lung problems and is capable I think of being absorbed through the skin.

I am not certain what these products contain and if anyone knows please tell

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Tony

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 23, 2004 07:46 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just don't use Derann LFC on acetate films. It's aimed at polyester.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 23, 2004 03:52 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Tony

This topic has come up a few times so to recap what I and others have said.

Thermofilm is available from LGP will clean and protect your film. It will remove minor scratches but will turn deeper ones green.

Crestaclean will clean film and remove scratches but use VERY conservatively.

Derann LFC will clean newer film stocks but will warp older acetate film stocks.

The old Reno film cleaner if available will melt plastic.

Personally, I use cleaners only if you have to.

If you have bought a new film run it through an editor with a clean cotton hankerchief to take off any dirt off and check
splices etc

If you have used cleaners wash your hands throughly and I mean
let them soak in warm water in the hand basin.

Dont ever use them if you have a scratch or cut on your hands.

I would also avoid breathing in the vapours /fumes coming
from cleaners for any length of time. Do cleaning in a well
ventilated room.

No one really knows what is in the cleaners that are available today. The old 2.22 used to say it had a low toxicity and recommended against prolonged exposure.

Remember the reason why some of the old cleaners are no longer available is that they were banned in the early 1980s by the European Union because some chemicals in their product damaged the o-zone.

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 23, 2004 04:33 PM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike,

Unusually I am forced to disagree with you on this,

The reason why cleaners like 2.22 died out was because the makers died first [Wink]

I say breathe deeply as it is a lot cheaper than evostick. Better still do it whilst watching the Rose (oops).

I think that by not labelling these products correctly the makers are breaching the EU directive 123456789/987654321/0/a/1/b
[Big Grin]

I only use Jif on my prints, they come up real clean too. Nice 'n bright so you can check the lumens and all.

Sleep well

Boy this DFC is cool stuff........

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Tony

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Chris Quinn
Master Film Handler

Posts: 372
From: England, Bedfordshire.
Registered: Nov 2003

- posted January 23, 2004 04:40 PM      Profile for Chris Quinn   Email Chris Quinn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Guys,
While on this subject, I have some film that has a hard time forming it's loop to start and when it does clatters through the projector like no ones business. [Frown] Does it need lubricating and if so what is the best stuff, it's on acetate stock and already has a green tram line for the first few minuets, but as its the one of the best prints i have of L & H, I like to watch it a lot.

Chris.

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The other half thinks i'm up to something. Shes right of course.

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 23, 2004 05:42 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Tony

Well all I was trying to do was be helpful and answer a query.
I didn't say it would give you cancer or make your knob drop off. Besides most of us are over 40 so what the heck take up smoking, drinking snort film cleaner whatever. Tony Blair going to make us all work until we think wearing our underpants on our head is cool.

But, Why did the makers die first!!! [Frown] and why did they glow in the dark. Don't tell me they were forced to eat readybrek or watch X Files.

Those tins of cornbeef you are eating are not the funny ones from the 1980s with the extra lead.

Give up on the JIF. Washing machine followed by tumbledryer is best to clean film. Why do you think they made the drums in those machines Round? 8mm reels of course.

Are you going to release a Towering Inferno DVD of how to use Crestaclean?

Away for a pump now and I don't need the light in the bathroom
anymore as it is luminous green like scratches with Thermofilm.

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1592
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 23, 2004 05:45 PM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
While on the subject of film cleaners, I just bought and used some RENOVEX II Film Cleaner/Anti-Static/Conditioner/Revitalizer. It smells like(and works like)the old Kodak Movie Film Cleaner; which I was very happy with in the 1970/80's.

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Joe Taffis

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 23, 2004 06:10 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Chris

A little Thermofilm should help reduce noise.

You can get it from LGP.

Mike

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 23, 2004 07:23 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would recommend that no one use any kind of film cleaning or lubricating products for which the supplier cannot provide a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS). This is standard practice in Industry- no reputable company would risk the health of it's employees by letting any products come into it's facility without an MSDS sheet. To do otherwise is to risk exposing yourself to toxic and carcinogenic compounds, which can make you ill, or even kill you a few years down stream. If there's no MSDS sheet available, don't buy it, it's just not worth the risk!

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 24, 2004 02:36 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike

That was a great precis of all the information I have read on various threads about film cleaners. It seems that with this subject the more I read the less I know but your posting sums it all up, I'm goint to print it off and put it in my cine file [Smile] .

Thanks.

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 24, 2004 02:51 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To Mike N,

Just checked my undies................

You were right about the knob, wife will be disappointed......

But then she normally is.............. [Big Grin]

Given that I usually only get one word answers from any enquiry to Classic, I don't think I am likely to get a safety sheet. Go on Classic- prove me wrong I dare you.....

Tony [Wink]

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Tony

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 24, 2004 03:34 AM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't worry Tony two new ones will grow back soon.

Think how impressed she will be then.

To go back to the topic of film cleaners.

From 1986-2001 I would have cleaned all the films I bought with cleaner as soon as I got them. Not so much for scratches but to preserve them and take all the dirt of them. Even new prints have a certain amount of dust.

However, over the last couple of years I have had enough bad experiences with certain cleaners ruining films to be more cautious.

Thermofilm is definitely the best cleaner available in the UK
but it has become much weaker than the old stock. Larry himself would admit that cetain chemicals have been replaced or removed
in the formula.

Crestaclean well it looks like urine, smells like nail polish
and is very waxy. I can't give an accurate description because
I dont know exactly what is in it.

It will take out minor scratches out but it does irritate your throat and the smell does linger like forever.

As for the others I've mentioned don't even bother.

Another little throwaway said to me from one collector was that he thought using film cleaners might have helped send film pink.
Who knows. Personally, I think it is more to do with storage temperatures and film stocks used.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 25, 2004 05:21 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Great bit there earlier Mike [Big Grin]

I spoke to Phil this week about his jollop and all he would tell me was that it had not changed at all even though I think the smell has and the performance. He said that it didnt contain white spirit or Parafin but was wax and Hydrocarbons???
I also spoke to Duncan about the warping of Acetate stock which is quite a serious problem and he told me that LFC was based on Isoprop and silicon. Isoprop is very good at removing moisture which is why I think it gives problems on acetate stock. It dries the base out.
Anyway I think that sensible caution should be used when playing with any of these cleaners just like the products you use for decorating etc. Dont smoke when using them or use them near Naked Flames (Tony) and certainly dont drink them. Use in a well ventilated room etc etc.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 26, 2004 03:10 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've been using Thermofilm for about 15 years and have not had a single problem. Haven't even had any emulsion scratches turn green or greener but then I rarely have any of these to contend with. Distilled water is the only chance of getting rid of emulsion scratches to swell the emulsion prior to applying film cleaner.

I have a rather nice stockpile of Thermofilm so will be able to use it for years to come unless I keep up the rather nasty habit of adding a snort to coffee!

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted January 27, 2004 11:05 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Guys,

It wasn't my intention to start off another thread on the old chesnut of whether or not to clean films and or the best product to use but thanks anyway for your opinions (thanks too to Mr N for his amusing bits!). It was more by way of "hey what is in this stuff......"

John, I have tried Thermofilm but how do you know if it is going on the film right? It seems to evaporate real quick that or it is almost invisible!

Tony

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Tony

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