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Author Topic: Lubricating plastic gears
Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 17, 2004 03:45 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My recently aquired Elmo SP projector was suffering from years of lying dorment in a box and with use is slowly coming to life again. I was looking at the plastic gears in the back and can see that they have been greased up [probably in the factory] and it occurs to me that after 30 years it might be prudent to apply some new grease. Thing is, I'm not sure what sort of grease it is safe to use on plastic parts as I'm pretty certain that petrol based lubricants and plastic parts don't mix! Is that right?

So what should I use? Any ideas chaps?

Thanks

Mike

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 17, 2004 05:39 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike, I believe that a lithium based grease (think it is called white grease) is safe for plastic parts. The one thing to avoid is anything like 3 in one or wd40.

Tony

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Tony

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 17, 2004 06:07 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Tony, any idea where I can get some? I've just checked Maplins site but can't find any on there but I'm not sure how it would be listed.

Mike

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 17, 2004 07:17 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike, I think
you will find it at most car accessory shops. I think you can use a standard high melting point lithium based grease (that is what I use) but I am told that the specific white grease is the ultimate.

If you search under yahoo for white grease it lists a host of sites. For those who want technical information go to:

http://www.lubricant.co.uk/grease.html

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Tony

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 17, 2004 07:28 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Tony, I'll be off to Halfords this afternoon [Wink] .

Mike [Cool]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 17, 2004 07:39 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lucky you, I am off to Devon and running late! [Cool] [Roll Eyes]

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Tony

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David Park
Master Film Handler

Posts: 346
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2003

- posted July 17, 2004 11:47 AM      Profile for David Park   Email David Park   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes I was adised to use this same type of grease in the 16mm forum.
I had to go to our local Car Parts Trade outlet in order to get it. Allthough I'm not trade they were very helpfull and helped me find it on the shelves and supplied me.

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Regards,
David

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Tim Christian
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 219
From: Norfolk, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 17, 2004 12:44 PM      Profile for Tim Christian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Electrolube SPG Special Plastics Grease is used for video recorder gears etc. Farnell stock it in 25 g syringes (very handy) - Part No. 725-626. Not cheap but a little goes a long way.

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Tim

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 17, 2004 02:48 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
The grease I use is Castrol LM or Heavy grease. These tend to look like the grease that Elmo used on the machines. I did try some Lith based white grease but because of the grease Elmo used I found that it wouldnt stick to the gears and just deposited itself round the internals of the machine so I didnt carry on with the stuff. My thoughts were that if it wouldnt mix with the existing grease then it was the wrong stuff.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Tim Christian
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 219
From: Norfolk, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 17, 2004 04:45 PM      Profile for Tim Christian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The use of mineral-based grease on plastics is a no-no. Over a couple of years, depending on the plastic, these parts will gradually embrittle and eventually simply fall apart.

Stick to the stuff used by the trade.

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Tim

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 22, 2004 12:27 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kev, Tim

Being ignorant on such matters, is the Castrol LM grease a "mineral" grease? How long have you applied it for Kev and with what results?

Tony

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Tony

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Trevor Adams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 763
From: Auckland,New Zealand
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 22, 2004 04:57 AM      Profile for Trevor Adams   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How about Moly paste?Trev

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Trevor

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 23, 2004 01:27 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Trev

Moly Paste?

Mike

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 23, 2004 01:39 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike

A nice Girl Trev knows from South Island

Tony [Wink]

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Tony

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Tim Christian
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 219
From: Norfolk, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 23, 2004 02:05 AM      Profile for Tim Christian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Alternatives to the type of grease I mentioned above is Dow Corning PG 30. This was advised by UK agents R.W. Greef (01 384 897969).

A problem with plastic gear is that of identifying the type of plastic, thus a grease suitable for even the most susceptible types should be chosen. Effects of mineral lubricants on plastic gears vary from total disintegration (ABS/Polystyrene) in less than a year to swellling and/or softening with nylon.

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Tim

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 23, 2004 09:59 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The GS1200 Service Manual does not show any direct lubrication of the plastic gears. The following lubrication is indicated:
1)The main brass worm gear, which contacts plastic gearing, is called out to be lubricated with Shell Alvavia Grease 2. This is a mineral base grease with Lithium thickner. Presumably this grease also must spread to the surface of the plastic gears as a result of contact with the brass worm gear.
2) The claw cam surface is required to be lubricated with Molykote EP. This is a high pressure grease with molybdenum additive.

3) For other areas, shafts, rollers etc, they call out Veddle 20-40 oil and Daphne 44 oil.

I recently greased up my GS gears with Exxon Lidok 2 EP general purpose grease, and am now questioning whether to strip down and re-lube with a different grease. I did use a grey Moly EP grease for the shuttle cam.
Mike has certainly raised a very interesting (if very difficult) question, which could affect the life of our projectors if we don't all use the right lube.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 24, 2004 04:43 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
In theory the cogs dont really need grease. I think it's applied to keep the whole thing quiet.
Time where can we get some of the grease (non mineral) that you use?

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Tim Christian
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 219
From: Norfolk, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 24, 2004 06:24 AM      Profile for Tim Christian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I get my Electrolube from

Farnell

via a local wholesaler.

As I mentioned above, it is worth talking to he technical service guys at R.W. Greeff (01 384 897969). They deal in Dow-Corning products.

web page

Yes, ideally nylon/delrin etc gears need no lubricant. However, grease does make machines a lot quieter - especially older ones.

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Tim

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 25, 2004 03:18 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What should you use to remove the existing grease without causing further damage?

Tony

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Tony

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Tim Christian
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 219
From: Norfolk, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 25, 2004 03:25 AM      Profile for Tim Christian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paraffin or white spirit - but dry properly.

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Tim

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film Handler

Posts: 35
From: Midland Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 25, 2004 11:33 PM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maybe a plastic safe silicone lubricant would be an alternative.

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Ronnie Coeuhant
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: San Jose, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004

- posted July 26, 2004 09:53 AM      Profile for Ronnie Coeuhant   Email Ronnie Coeuhant   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In the US, you can get Silicone lubricants below - similar to what they use in industrial robotics for electronics manufacturing:

SSP Lubricant

Cheap at about $10 for 5 ounce and it can be used for metal-to-metal and plastics-to-metal.

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Tim Christian
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 219
From: Norfolk, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 26, 2004 10:04 AM      Profile for Tim Christian   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The problem we have is that we are trying to extend the life of equipment beyond its design useful life. I use the lubricant specified above because a local friend who maintains equipment with plastic gears has used it for 20 years without problems.

If you ask lubricant manufacturers who claim 'plastic safe' if their product is safe for, say, 20 years they will usually start to hedge their bets. Most of the time, they say, 'Ask the material supplier.' This is a major problem because you are never sure with a 30 year old projector who made the bits - certainly not the material.

Another good question is: 'Is this safe on gelatin and cellulose acetate for 75 years? If anyone gets a firm answer, please post it here!

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Tim

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 26, 2004 10:06 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The main problem with using ANY silicone products in projectors , is the potential for silicones to migrate to optical surfaces. I have been in the Laser industry for 30 years, and Silicones have long ago been banned from use in our facility because there is absolutely no way of cleaning silicones off any type of optical surface. Clearly, laser optics are much more critical than movie projection lenses, but I would think there would still be a concern about the stuff migrating around the machine, getting on the film path and optics.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted July 26, 2004 12:16 PM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul

If you have silicon on your optics can you tell? Is it visible to the naked eye? What about furniture polish containing silicon is that an issue as well?

Tony

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Tony

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