8mm Forum


  
my profile | my password | search | faq | register | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» 8mm Forum   » 8mm Forum   » "Film Renew" (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 6 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6 
 
Author Topic: "Film Renew"
Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted October 22, 2004 05:00 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
After reading Kevin's frightening comment on another post about a certain product, I'm just wondering now which is the best film guard solution to use...
I've searched the forum and, apparently, the better ones are discontinued.
Any experience with "Film Renew" sold by Urbanski or Wittner?
Any other advice?

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted October 26, 2004 05:36 AM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Jean-Marc, I persoanlly find filmrenew a bit too strong though its quite good, not as good as thermofilm is or was though.
You could try LGP they may still have some T,film about.
I think about the least toxic around now is filmgaurd available form the states, leaves a bit of grease behind as well.
I think being sensible with film cleaner we need to remember the huge list of cine people who have died of cancer, not necessarily linked but its a strange one. I`d personally go for the least iffy on your nose and head you can find and then do it wearing decent gloves and in the yard or garden.
A friend of mine just did some filmrenew with his hands and they went terrible, all open and sore so you need to be careful.
A bit of furniture polish on a soft cloth never seems to do too much harm if you`ve not much to do and I wondered how baby oil would do.
Best Mark.

 |  IP: Logged

Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted October 26, 2004 08:30 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Mark,
Thanks for the advice (and the other frightening stories [Eek!] ) I guess I'll settle for Filmguard...

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted October 26, 2004 12:45 PM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Jean-Marc, films going out tomorrow so should be with you soon,
best Mark.

 |  IP: Logged

Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted October 26, 2004 01:13 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
hey Mark,
Got your email. Nice to see that the computer is working again. Looking forward to receiving film. Do you know how many UFO episodes were given the 400ft treatment? (I've heard 6...)

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted October 26, 2004 02:22 PM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Jean-Marc, not sure, I`ve seen three, the cat with ten lives, exposed and idnetified, but I know there are more out there, you can get them in 3x400 versions as well but I think the 400`s are pretty good.
best Mark.

 |  IP: Logged

Ian O'Reilly
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 737
From: London
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 26, 2004 02:34 PM      Profile for Ian O'Reilly     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark / Mr Sheen
Jackie said when you have finished cleaning your films with furniture polish, could you pop over and give the living room the once over!!
Regards
Ian
Ps It's a good job Mr Milman is on holiday or you would be receiving some stick off him.

 |  IP: Logged

Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted October 26, 2004 02:53 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Ian. How about car polish? What else? Marmite?
I can't believe it's not ThermoFilm...

Mark, you just added one UFO title I was missing ("cat with 10 lives"). So far, I count 6 cutdowns:
- Identified
- Exposed
- Timelapse (this one is hilarious, with a great go-kart chase)
- Psychobombs
- Cat with 10 lives
- Survival

I've seen some 3x400ft episodes appearing on used lists but I like the 400ft version (and they look rather nice, side by side, on the shelf).

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

 |  IP: Logged

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 26, 2004 03:32 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm just doing some tests, along with another member of the Lightwater 6, with WD40 which is available from your local Halfords here in the UK. What got me going on this was the fact that WD40, Filmguard and Filmrenew all have that sort of musty/mildew smell to them and probably are fairly similar in makeup.
Mark, thanks for those earlier statistics earlier! I'm sure we all wanted to hear that. Lighten up man [Smile]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

 |  IP: Logged

Ian O'Reilly
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 737
From: London
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 26, 2004 03:39 PM      Profile for Ian O'Reilly     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
kevin
IMHO WD40 is fine on optical prints but don't use on magnetic prints, you will get a oil build up on the pinch roller which in turn will cause WOW.

 |  IP: Logged

Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 26, 2004 03:47 PM      Profile for Gary Crawford     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can vouch for Film Renew...overall...a really fine cleaner and conditioner. As with any chemical use it wisely....ventilation helps....if you soak prints...expect tape splices to come apart. I've found cleaning with cloth through rewinds usually is no problem for tape splices.

 |  IP: Logged

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 26, 2004 04:03 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Ian, I too have had that problem with other cleaners. 2.22 left a wax or the like behind on the pinch roller as does other cleaners etc. On my GS I regularly clean the 2 rubber rollers with isoprop to cut down this very problem. I dont think from the tests I have done so far that WD40 is any worse in that respect. I do know one thing though and that is that projection is really quiet with WD40. Is that a slogan for the use of WD40? [Big Grin]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted October 26, 2004 04:14 PM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Kev, not trying to be gloomey and if you have a think its not even a statistic,the numbers are very high, its quite unusual and rather worrying so i`m just a big believer in suggesting anyone does it with good gloves and outside.
Some twit wrote in to Ace or a similar mag not that long ago and suggested that people use carbon tetrachloride and they printed it!!!!!!!!!!!!, can`t remember if they said to just use your fingers and we all know how downright deadly that is.
Personally I find WD40 a bit to strong, I did it in the garden and still went up with the fairies!!!!!!!.
I`d say its probaly better suited to 16mm though I would expect it might have a very detramentle effect on colour stability.
Shame classic stuff went a bit odd, as that was good though still very strong.
222 was great but it definately going by even walton lowfades I`ve seen hit colour hard over time. I`ve seen so many usually sound stocks on super 8 with a thermofilmed or 222 such and such date on very pinking.Usually 222.
Its all chemical and so are we I suppose.So caution, thats all.
Best Mark.

 |  IP: Logged

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 26, 2004 04:27 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Come on Mark, leave it out. Where on earth did you get those facts from? I dont think that the number of deaths from Cancer within the film hobby realms are any higher than any other walk of life.
BTW have you been hitting the bottle as i had a bit of trouble unravelling that last reply [Smile]
Any chemical thats used has to be treated with respect interms of good ventilation and wearing rubber gloves etc.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted October 26, 2004 04:45 PM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Kev, go through the dealers that are no longer with us and ask what they died of, its way over usual figures, thats just a simple observation and the forum is all about sharing things we come accross etc.
I think its very valid and needs to be taken seriously if using these products.
best Mark.

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 525
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 26, 2004 10:59 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
The WD40 idea has been around for years and tests have been done. Among other problems, WD40 will cause leeching of the color dyes and will cause various problems with polyester base films, commonly unremovable spotting. It is also very flammable. Sure it's mega cheap, but you get what you pay for.

 |  IP: Logged

Craig Hamilton
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 501
From: Luton
Registered: Sep 2004


 - posted October 27, 2004 11:00 AM      Profile for Craig Hamilton     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad, WD40 is mega cheap. Could be the fact that they sell in excess of over 4 MILLION tins annually. How many bottles of Filmgaurd are sold annually? Mark trust me, it wasn’t the WD40 that made you go with the Fairies, insufficient solvent content. BTW the most common cause of cancer deaths in men is testicular cancer, I personally apply my film cleaner by hand so should be ok in that department. [Big Grin]

--------------------
I dream of becoming a dealer!!!!!!
Is Perry's Movies for Sale.

 |  IP: Logged

Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 27, 2004 12:13 PM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark
"Hi Kev, go through the dealers that are no longer with us and ask what they died of,...."

Can I have the name of your "medium"? [Big Grin]

Craig,

Oh B*ll*cks, when it said pass through two soft pads....

--------------------
Tony

 |  IP: Logged

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 27, 2004 05:18 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Tony, I missed that in Marks reply and I have to say I nearly DIED laughing.
Brad, so what solvents are used in Filmrenew and Filmgaurd if any?
Noticed that the bottle of Filmgaurd we have, had no Health and Safety instructions which are now needed on items like this in the UK!
I will ask Keith W here in the UK about his use of WD40 as he has used it various times over the years. He should be able to confirm if it causes fade etc as i think he has used it on extracts he has shown at the BFCC over the years.
Mark, What do you use to clean and lube your films with?

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 525
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 27, 2004 06:54 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
MSDS sheets for every chemical product is required by law to be made available. You can simply email myself for a copy of FilmGuard's MSDS sheet, or Larry Urbanski for a copy of FilmRenew's MSDS sheet. Past the MSDS sheet, FilmGuard's mixture is protected by patent for another 24 years.

 |  IP: Logged

Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted October 27, 2004 08:39 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad Miller wrote:
<MSDS sheets for every chemical product is required by law to be made available. You can simply e-mail myself for a copy of Film Guard's MSDS sheet, or Larry Urbanski for a copy of FilmRenew's MSDS sheet. Past the MSDS sheet, Film Guard's mixture is protected by patent for another 24 years.>

I don't think that people are looking to crack the code to Film Guard, they just want to be safe. If it is a cleaner solvent that they can use within reasonable guidelines.
The MSDS protects the Right to Know Law, established by
OSHA (Occupational Safety Heath Administration) in the USA.

This was also established to help hobbyists use products safely.

Indeed, a MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) are required by law to be made available to the public when they make a request to know about a product. This is a result of workers using products in their daily trade that caused ill effects to their health.

To obtain an MSDS is important to those that question the absorption by direct skin contact and by airborne threshold levels. Most importantly, it is necessary to know how to interpret an MSDS.

The toxicity chart is labeled from 0-4, with zero indicating non traceable levels to four being the highest.

The chart should indicate the type of protection to be used as well.

A MSDS should include the following:
as in FilmRenew.
Section I.
1.Product Class: Petroleum Hydrocarbon
2.Trade Name: Film RENEW

Health:1
Flammability:2
Reactivity: 0

Section II.
It should include a chart for Hazardous Ingredients
which include minimal Threshold levels stated in PPM
(Parts Per Million) Generally speaking, the lower the number, the more concentrated it will be to fill the air in millions. (10,000 ppm) would take a lot to fill the air.

The other sections should include:
Section III.
Emergency and First Aid Procedures

Section IV.
Physical Data

Section V.
Fire and Explosion Data

Section VI.
Health Hazard Data

Section VII.
Reactivity Data

Section VIII.
Spill or Leak Procedures

Section IX.
Safe Handling and Use information

Section X.
Special Precautions

Hobbyists have the right to be knowledgeable and aware when using these products.

--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

 |  IP: Logged

Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 28, 2004 02:54 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael,

Fascinating stuff. I am not going to join Mark in scaring the cine world especially as I am probably more at risk of breathing in hydro-carbons whilst filling the car etc etc. Also, unless you are regularly cleaning films for long periods and take no common sense precautions then I doubt that these products are really harmful.

Brad, why not kill this issue completely by posting the MSDS thingy here?

--------------------
Tony

 |  IP: Logged

Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted October 28, 2004 03:33 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gents, thank you for all the precious details.
Mark, I think we're all sensible collectors, aware that handling chemicals requires a minimum of safety.

I certainly agree that we can go on with this fascinating debate but - please, pretty please, with sugar on top - may I do a quick poll in order to address my original question?
- Who's vouching for "Film Guard"?
- Who's vouching for "Film Renew"?
(The later being apparently easier to get from dealers)

[Smile]

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted October 28, 2004 04:19 AM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi well I suppose cancer is a bit of a laugh after all, what was I thinking of suggesting people take care when using these products.
Anyway it would be a price worth paying wouldn`t it, how silly of me.
I forgot that saying anything vaguely negative about anything relating super 8 might mean mass exodus to dvd etc I`m so very very sorry.
Also sometimes its easy to forget just how incredibly knowledgeable some people on this forum, and I humbly withdraw my suggestion that getting any of these chemicals etc worked into your skin or into your lungs could be anything other than good for you.
There may be certain fluids etc that I would always personally avoid but thats my choice of course.

Jean-Marc both film renew and filmgaurd are very good in different ways, myself for general usuage I would try filmguard first ts especially good for old acetate films and keeping them running sweetly through the machine.
Best Mark.

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 525
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 28, 2004 04:36 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Tony, I posted a pdf version of the MSDS a long time ago on the main website and people who have no clue as to how to read an MSDS sheet started panicking thinking it was a concoction that would create a nuclear explosion. It is because of the general public's ignorance on how to read a safety data sheet which is why it is no longer just posted anywhere. However anyone (even if you have not used the product before) is free to email in a request for one, and one will be promptly emailed to you. Every manufacturer HAS to oblige with this request by law, so it's certainly not anything that any manufacturer is trying to hide. However due to the typical response from the general non-thinking public, you will find very few manufacturers bother to put the MSDS online because of this reasoning.

For those who have never read an MSDS sheet before, you should request some for various chemicals you have around the house first though so you will have something to compare with. Get yourself an MSDS for that can of Raid bug spray in your kitchen, perhaps one for that can of paint thinner, maybe one for your can of lighter fluid you use for your charcoal grill out back, and grab one for WD40 while you're at it. These are all readily available from the manufacturers for the asking, and it will give you a better idea of how to properly interpret a safety data sheet by comparing them.

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central
This topic comprises 6 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2