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Author Topic: Eumig 810D?
Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1619
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted September 17, 2005 09:55 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On my separate thread about standard 8mm movies, enthusiast David Pannell mentioned using a Eumig 810D.

David, I have seen one for £275 from a dealer and am considering getting a good standard 8 sound machine. Do you or others think this is a reasonable price?

I wonder if anyone could be kind enough to fill me in on basic specs. Like what bulb it uses, what lens it has and maybe how reliable you have found this machine (when were they last made, I wonder?)

Basically I'm looking for a good standard 8mm machine with a big picture and reasonable sound so any other suggestions would also be appreciated.

Thanks in advance [Smile]

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Mark Norton
Master Film Handler

Posts: 327
From: Hampton Hill, Middlesex, U.K.
Registered: Feb 2004


 - posted September 17, 2005 10:54 AM      Profile for Mark Norton   Author's Homepage   Email Mark Norton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rob,

My first projector was an Eumig 802D [Dual]. It was easy to switch from super8 to standard8 and for nearly 20 years it gave no problems and didn't scratch films. 100w bulb and good sound 600ft capacity. I let it go as I don't screen standard 8 and had little storage space.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted September 17, 2005 11:25 AM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the Eumig S8xx machines are about your best choice for dual-8 machines with sound, with the sound itself being of high quality at that. 12V/100W EFP bulbs are cheap and easy to get... the only thing to watch out for (from what I've read around here) is the rubber wheel drive which may wear out over time and slip, but a good cleaning should take care of that (there is no belt, actually).
These Eumigs come with good 1:1.3 zoom lenses... the "Lux" models have a bright 1.2 lens for those big pictures.

But 275 pounds? Rip-off, if you ask me [Eek!]

... OK, "rip-off" may be a bit harsh but at that price, I would expect a MINT-CONDITION, PERFECTLY WORKING model (...preferably a Sonomatic S824D Lux with twin-track sound :grin: ) with everything adjusted and replaced as necessary. For your typical used/working eBay unit, spend no more than 100 pounds...

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4889
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 17, 2005 11:30 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Rob,
I totally agree with Jan, 275 pounds is way too high for a Eumig 810D. You should not have to pay more than 125 pounds for an 810, and at that price it should be in tip top condition.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1619
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted September 17, 2005 12:16 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks guys. I should stress that this price was from a very good dealer, so even though I have not checked on the condition, I would imagine it is excellent. Also, of course, he has to add a decent warranty into this price.

Even so, this was more than I had wanted to spend really, so it is good to know that I should be able to find a decent machine for a lot less (anyone know of one for sale???)

Thanks again for your help [Smile]

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2389
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted September 17, 2005 12:44 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rob, watch Ebay. Eumig 800's pop-up there regularly.
A dual-format 824 was just listed on Ebay France (click here) .
I already bought stuff from this seller, his items are in really good condition.

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Tim Christian
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 219
From: Norfolk, UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 17, 2005 01:25 PM      Profile for Tim Christian   Author's Homepage   Email Tim Christian   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Second everything said about the 810D. I have both the 810D and the 802, both are excellent machines but the 810 has the edge.
I'm just upgrading mine to take 150 W lamps.

One went for £150 on ebay a couple of weeks ago. Of that dealer's £275, probably about £40 of that is v.a.t. Then he's got some liability to offset, and some work to check it out (an EFP lamp is £7 trade), so it isn't so bad.

If you are prepared to take the chance and do some maintenance, then you can save some money, of course.

--------------------
Tim

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4787
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted September 18, 2005 07:02 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes the 810D is a very good machine. Still got the intructions book from the first one my Brother bought brand new in shp in Plymouth. We wrote the price we paid on the front cover. purchased in 1974 it cost £274.99. WOW. [Eek!]
Now you can get a good one generally for between £100-£150 tops. That said, if you get a good one and are happy to pay then why not? you never know when the next "good" one will turn up. [Wink]

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1619
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted September 19, 2005 08:47 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks to all for the great advice.

A Eumig S810D LUX is on it's way to me.

From an excellent dealer so should be tip top and at the right price.

Thanks to everyone's good advice I feel sure now that I have made the right choice for the right money [Smile]

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David Pannell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1072
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted September 21, 2005 06:06 AM      Profile for David Pannell   Author's Homepage   Email David Pannell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Rob,

Sorry I haven't responded earlier, but I have been away on business.

Can't add to what's already been said. It's a super little machine. The thing about these over the earlier Eumig dual gauge machines, is that you change the gate assembly and the sprockets to suit either Super 8 or Standard 8, rather than the old compromise of not doing so, with the (quite often, but not always) result of damaged film eventually.

You won't go wrong with a good condition 810D. [Big Grin]

ENJOY! [Razz]

Best,

Dave.

--------------------
Dave.

Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1619
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted September 28, 2005 03:38 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David, the Eumig has arrived and I've just had a chance to give it a quick check over.

I love the changeable sprockets and gate assembly; what a piece of engineering!

It looks in great shape. It took me a while to digest the instruction manual and get the hang of changing formats, but what great fun. I wonder what a "pop-in-and-play" DVD generation might make of all this!!!

Reading through the immaculate condition instruction manual which proudly explains that I have made a great choice of machine and boasting the advantages of the LUX version, I felt like I had been transported back 30 years and bought the machine new!

Looking forward to giving it a full work-out as soon as I get time.

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David Pannell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1072
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted October 01, 2005 04:23 AM      Profile for David Pannell   Author's Homepage   Email David Pannell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rob, glad you seem to have found a really nice one - I'm gradually turning green - as mine unfortunately isn't the Lux version, though I have no problems with the regular model.

I'll be interested to hear what you think of its performance, - how quiet it is, etc. etc.

Cheers for now,

Dave.

--------------------
Dave.

Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1619
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted October 01, 2005 05:58 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've tried it out properly now and it really is nice.

One slight glitch is that it does seem to run a bit slow at 24 fps. You can hear it in the sound. Not too bad but I wonder if this is something easily fixed.

Otherwise it is great, quiet with a nice steady picture and the sound is very clear.

Nice bright picture too and very sharp. Interestingly, I have heard that the Suprogon lens with the LUX version was a 1.2. In the manual I have it is refered to as a 1.0, but the one on the machine is a 1.1? Maybe they made different verisons of the Suprogon?

UPDATE: Just read back over this thread and Jan's comments on the rubber drives. Looked back into the forum and found the thread on cleaning the drives etc. This seems to be my problem with the speed. I'll check this out and report back!

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Tim Christian
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 219
From: Norfolk, UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 01, 2005 06:23 AM      Profile for Tim Christian   Author's Homepage   Email Tim Christian   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On the 810D, the speeds are set by the shape of the bracket on the end of the 50/60 Hz switch inside the machine, above and to the left of the drives. This is not easy to remove and adjust. My 810D runs at 23.6 fps and 18.4 fps, loaded. My other Eumig 8xx and 9xx models have similar speeds. (Speeds are measured digitally with an accuracy of better than 0.1%.)

Where you are used to hearing film sound tracks on TV, where 24 fps films are often shown at 25 fps, it is easy to imagine the projector is runnung slow.

--------------------
Tim

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1619
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted October 01, 2005 08:51 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Tim, I know what you mean about being used to 25 fps on TV, but the speed is definately a bit too slow.

I cleaned the drive discs but this didn't help. Tell me more about the 50/60Hz switch...

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Seppo Tollikko
Junior
Posts: 7
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted October 02, 2005 02:38 AM      Profile for Seppo Tollikko   Author's Homepage   Email Seppo Tollikko   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This speed problem is quite common in those Eumig 8XX series projectors. Their bearings are sealed and the lubrication becomes a little sticky during the no-use years in the upper self. Besides the usual service of the belts and other parts the projector may need gymnastics. Running them a couple of times (no bulb or film needed) long enough to let the bearings receive the warming from the motor heat may help to re-animate the lubrication. I have had success.
Also note the speed selector knob which is usually quite sticky and may not be in the right position every time when moved back and forth.

There is a long range of objectives suitable to fit in the Eumig projectors and though there was the "standard" (often a couple bit different) for each model, it was a quite common practice to upgrade the objective to the buyers needs right away when purchased or later when faster objectives became available. If the projector has changed hands a few times, no one can be sure whether the objective is "original" or not.

If You are recording to the magnetic track, try with some other machine. This is the known weak point of 810 projectors.

--------------------
No sig for me.

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Tim Christian
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 219
From: Norfolk, UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 02, 2005 09:59 AM      Profile for Tim Christian   Author's Homepage   Email Tim Christian   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is true that the grease in all projectors will get hard with time, and the self-lubricating bearings (ball-shaped brass-coloured, in metal cages) get passed their sell-by date. The practical solution for metal surfaces is to apply a LITTLE thin oil to thin the grease. I use Aeroshell 500 turbine oil, but any thin mineral oil will do. AVOID getting this on any plastic items: in a year or so they will embrittle and probably fall apart. Apply the oil, then run the projector for a while to get it to penetrate. For plastic surfaces, wipe off as much of the old grease as possible and replace with a grease intended for plastic surfaces (sold for video and dvd players).

The speed range of the Eumig 8xx is set by a large, shiny-metal screw just above the shaft that carries the two rubber-faced drive disks. This runs through a slot in black metal plate through which the 50/60 Hz switch passes. It clamps a shiny-metal bar through another slot. The further down this bar is, the faster the projector will run. Usual top speed is in the range 27.5 to 28 fps.

Adjustment of speed requires the use of a suitable meter: either a true r.p.m. indicator (measures the interval between pulses from the sensor) or a digital frequency meter (measures the number of pulses in a given time). The adjustment is very delicate; speed is extremely difficult to set by ear alone. I would not recommend attempting this adjustment unless you have the correct equipment and tools, and are used to using them.

Measure the speed with the projector running forward, with the lamp on, and with the take-up spool spigot clamped stationery to simulate a film load.

Examination of the metal bar below the clamping screw shows that there is a small hole in it below the slot. Once the speed-measurement equipment has been set up, and with the projector UNPLUGGED, set the speed control lever into a mid position. Insert a suitable instrument screwdriver in this small hole and hold it in place. Then, with a thin, but broad screwdriver, slacken off the adjustment screw no more than a half turn. This should allow the slotted bar to be moved UP slightly. (Movement of this bar about 2 mm covers the entire range of speed between about 23 and 28 fps, so only a slight movement should be made between speed measurements.) Now, tighten the adjustment screw, set the speed control lever to 24 fps and measure the speed. Repeat this adjustment until the required speed is attained.

Finally, check that both the 24 fps and 18 fps speeds remain correct. It is a good idea to check this in the 60 Hz (or 50 Hz if you a running on 60 Hz) position of the switch, checking that the speed corresponds to the ratio of the frequencies.

These instructions are based on my examples of Eumig 8xx machines. Euming were fond of making minor changes during production, so check your machine before starting.

I have never has sound recording problems with any 8xx machine. Then, I clean the heads and adjacent guides thoroughly and regularly.

--------------------
Tim

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1619
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted October 02, 2005 11:07 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Seppo and Tim.

I will print off your instructions Tim for future reference.

I think the sensible thing to do for now is just use the projector and see if it loosens up; Seppo, you're probably right about it not being used for a while. It is from a really good dealer who will have checked it over thoroughly but of course, it may not have had a proper work-out for some time.

I'll just enjoy it for now and see what happens [Smile] Other than that (which isn't really a big problem) it is a great little machine and I'm very pleased with it indeed.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1619
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted October 03, 2005 09:58 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well after only a few more hours use the speed problem seems to have cleared up.

The projector now runs perfectly [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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