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Author Topic: Newsreels
Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 12, 2006 07:43 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have always been a fan of the newsreels, and have several representative samples of Movietone and Pathe newsreels in my collection. One of these, British Movietone Final Edition, is a little disappointing. Marketed by Derann, it comes housed in a lavish plastic clamshell box with great graphics. You think you are getting a 400ft film, but when you open the box you see a 200ft reel, and that reel is only half full!! That's right, Derann put about 100ft of film in a 400ft box! What a con! I can't believe Derek pulled that stunt! Anyway, what there is of it is fine, but it only runs about 5 minutes, and I would think that Movietone's Final Edition in the theaters would have been quite an event, probably running for at least half an hour (anybody know how long it ran?). So why did Derann hack this film to death and then market it in a box worthy of a 20 minute MGM digest?
Watching these old newsreels really is like opening a time capsule. Not just the content, but the voice and delivery and pacing style of the commentators define an era. It occurs to me that Leslie Mitchell (British Movietone News) and Bob Danvers Walker (British Pathe News) are probably two of the iconic voices of the twentieth century. There is quite a lot of info and photo's about Leslie on the web, but very little about Bob and no photos that I can find. Anybody have any info on 'The Voice of Pathe'?

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Yanis Tzortzis
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 531
From: Greece
Registered: Aug 2005


 - posted April 12, 2006 09:44 AM      Profile for Yanis Tzortzis   Author's Homepage   Email Yanis Tzortzis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I absolutely agree on the newsreel veneration, but are you sure about the DERANN Movietonenews reel? As far as I remember,and not willing to be anyone's advocate,yes there was a 60m reel in a 120m box,but it was almost full-if memory helps, it did last about 10 minutes.
...How about the American newsreels released by Blackhawk with the title 'Lowell Thomas remembers...'? I have a couple of them for 1941 and 1945; any info on how many were released?

[ April 12, 2006, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: Yanis Tzortzis ]

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Yannis

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Barry Attwood
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1411
From: Enfield, U.K.
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted April 12, 2006 09:57 AM      Profile for Barry Attwood   Email Barry Attwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul,

I'm with Yanis on this, I have this film in stock at the moment and the 200' reel is pretty full, did you buy this from new or was it 2nd hand, as the copy I've got must run about 8 minutes or more. As to the 8mm release, Derann would have just been supplied with a master to work from, and I would imagine this was the original cut as seen in cinemas.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 12, 2006 04:41 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Barry,
I just ran my copy again on the GS1200 and it clocks in at 6 minutes and 15 seconds. Yes I bought this used from Paerry's, but there are no splices.
I raised this issue on Mark Sylvesters UK Forum, and Adrian Simmonds kindly responded with a detailed breakdown of the film contents, which coincided exactly with my copy. Adrian also stated that the print run time was 5mins 59 seconds, so the conclusion is that my print is exactly the one marketed by Derann.
Which leaves the question, was this the same as the release copy to the British Cinemas? Hard to believe that British Movietone would have fielded such a poor tribute to their magnificent 50 year legacy!

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Yanis Tzortzis
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 531
From: Greece
Registered: Aug 2005


 - posted April 12, 2006 08:58 PM      Profile for Yanis Tzortzis   Author's Homepage   Email Yanis Tzortzis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have to admit I haven't watched the film for a long time, as it's in my collection in Athens and I'm currently...in Birmingham (that's what one gets for having residence in two contries!),so I won't insist. My impression was indeed that the film ran for about ten minutes, but I can't confirm this from Britain . So I leave it to someone that can view it now...
...What I will insist on, however, is on info about the 'Lowell Thomas remembers' series-does anyone know how many issues were around?

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Yannis

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Barry Attwood
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1411
From: Enfield, U.K.
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted April 13, 2006 02:34 AM      Profile for Barry Attwood   Email Barry Attwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul,

I think the trouble is with this reel is that the British public were not interested in watching newsreel coverage in the cinema's anymore, and although this is a special tribute reel, this would have gone round the circuits with an 'A' feature and a 'B' feature, and although it was most probably highlighted on the film posters it was showing with, I doubt if little more effort was put into promoting it than that, and that may be the reason for the mean cut. I know I said the print I have nearly feels the reel, and I've just looked at it again and it's on acetate, so that does give the impression (as it's a thicker stock than polyester) of more on the reel than perhaps their really is.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 13, 2006 08:40 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barry,
I found a superb newsreel data base (The British Universities Newsreel Database) which lists the contents of all the British newsreels ever made!
Here is the listing for British Movietone's Final Edition and it is exactly as released by Derann. I just can't believe that this was the best that British Movietone could have done to salute their magnificent 50 year legacy!

http://joseph.bufvc.ac.uk/BUND/detail.php?&id=24621&&story_id=031297

Yanis,
The Lowell Thomas Remembers series was released by Blackhawk Films here in the USA. i Do'nt remember exactly how many there were, but there was a lot of them. Incidentally, Lowell Thomas was another great voice of the last century.

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

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From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 13, 2006 10:11 AM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yanis,

Blackhawk films released all 44 episodes of the PBS television series "Lowell Thomas Remembers". There was the special opening program and then individual shows that covered each year from 1919-1962 (1919 & 1920 were combined for one show). They were made available in Super 8mm mag sound, 16mm optical, and 3/4" video cassette. Even though the TV version had approx 5 minutes of color scenes (the intro & Lowell Thomas sequences), Blackhawk made the decision to release them on B&W stock to keep costs down. The scenes retained their color on the 3/4" tapes.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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David Roberts
Master Film Handler

Posts: 405
From: Suffolk. England
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted April 14, 2006 02:31 PM      Profile for David Roberts     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul,
i just ran my copy of British Movietone News,last addition and it runs a full 10 minutes.i too love newsreels,such social history and the perspective put on stories before p-c ness was invented.Trouble is,my wife reckons i should stop living in the past,but i like it there!

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Yanis Tzortzis
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 531
From: Greece
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 - posted April 14, 2006 06:55 PM      Profile for Yanis Tzortzis   Author's Homepage   Email Yanis Tzortzis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul and Doug, lots of thanks for the very interesting information on Lowell Thomas. I was surprised to see Blackhawk released so many of them- for quite a few years I have only come up with the two I mentioned, so they must be quite hard to find. I also presume they are all mounted on 600'reels so they last about half an hour-what a
treat it would be to find the very first ones...
Thanks also to Paul for the BUND site link!

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Yannis

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 14, 2006 07:01 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well David, the plot thickens! The BUND web site states that the length of this final edition newsreel in 35mm film, was 569Ft. Can someone tell us what that equates to in running time, for 35mm film, at 24fps?

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Douglas Meltzer
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From: New York, NY, USA
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 - posted April 14, 2006 09:57 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul,

90' of 35mm film (at 24fps) equals one minute, so 569' is approx 6 minutes and 20 seconds. It appears you have the complete film!

Doug

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 15, 2006 11:47 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank's Doug, I guess that resolves the issue of running time. But still leaves the question as to why Movietone put together such a pitiful final edition. It was supposed to be a tribute to the Movietine Team, but did'nt even mention Leslie Mitchell who was the voice of British Movietone for 40 years!
I wonder if British Pathe put out a final edition. If they did, it is hopefully better than Movietone's.

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David Roberts
Master Film Handler

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From: Suffolk. England
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted April 15, 2006 02:54 PM      Profile for David Roberts     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul,
A humble appology,ive checked the running time of my copy of the final BMN,and guess what,it runs just over 6 minutes!
i cant think how i made the mistake,too much beer probably.

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