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Author Topic: GS/ST Metal Input Guides
Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted May 18, 2006 06:53 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester   Email Adrian Winchester   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
[Big Grin] Superb... and perhaps invaluable if anyone, disorientated due to the lack of an arrow, forgets where to thread the film.

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Adrian Winchester

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted May 18, 2006 10:48 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kev,

This is remarkable.
I wonder if it would help
to have a roller placed
on the end of the guide,
in the similar method
to the modification on
the plastic guides?

Michael

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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 19, 2006 01:04 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Yes I wondered that too Michael. Although metal would have to be cut away at least this one is solid so there wouldnt be the need to glue plastic at the rear etc for something to screw into.

I think though that the wear on this guide will be much slower than with the green plastic so hopefully there would be no need for the roller.

Maybe be a second as a spare would see the life of the machine out.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 19, 2006 01:05 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kev,

Couldn't you have painted it green as well [Big Grin] ....
Now then, will you be selling your old modified guide [Wink]

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Tony

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 19, 2006 01:12 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
I didnt get round to ever doing the mod on the input guide but was thinking about getting it done very soon.....then this came along [Smile]
See you at the BFCC with one unmodded green input guide [Wink] and no your not having that 1st sprocket guide off my machine [Big Grin]

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 19, 2006 01:55 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kevin,

What is the story behind whoever went to the trouble to make this guide and do youknow if they have plans to do any other pieces of the GS ?

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Tony

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 19, 2006 04:25 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Tony, More Later [Wink]

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Joerg Niggemann
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 127
From: Germany
Registered: May 2006


 - posted May 25, 2006 04:45 AM      Profile for Joerg Niggemann   Email Joerg Niggemann   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kevin, I just "modded" the first sprocket guide of my GS according to your photo. Great idea and it works!

Jörg

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 25, 2006 05:50 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Joerg...Great news. It certainly removes the possibility of scratching at the exit of the guide. The other points where the GS can wear and scratch is the bottom black tensioner which can be removed and reshaped or replaced with a roler assay from a ST1200HD, and the entrance to the sound head where the small rubber roller pushes down onto the film prior to going through the heads.
Bill Parsons sent me a picture of a GS with very severe wear at this point and at the moment there is no way to solve this except to remove the rubber roller to stop this wear from happening. This can only be done on the later machines where the loop goes back towards the lamphouse. It cant be removed on the forward loop early machines as this roller is vital to shape the loop before it goes into the heads.
The head block holder assay is no longer available but I wonder if thin strips of teflon plastic could be stuck over the worn areas. I will put a picture here of that part showing wear tonight when I get home.
This small roller is there to smooth out the intermittant motion of the film before getting to the heads. The ST600 has exactly the same layout as the later GS's and doesnt have a roller which is why it seems to be ok without on the later GS's.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Joerg Niggemann
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 127
From: Germany
Registered: May 2006


 - posted May 25, 2006 03:11 PM      Profile for Joerg Niggemann   Email Joerg Niggemann   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kevin, I found some wear at the points you mentioned on my GS, but I think there's some time left until it will cause scratch. I wonder if the head block holder assay of the ST1200 will fit to the GS1200. Having a look at my "spare part ST", it seemed to me that there is no difference. The ST has no rubber roller at the entrance to the sound heads and so there is no wear at that point.

Jörg

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 27, 2006 12:39 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Here is the picture Bill Parsons sent me showing the exact points of wear at the entrance to the head block. This I think seems to be more of a problem on the GS because of the rubber roller pressing the film onto these two points which due to the abrasive stripe wears the metal away then allowing the film to rub in the centre.

I have now removed the roller assay on my GS and it seems at present to not give rise to clicking on the soundtrack. This can only be removed on the later machines with the backward loop. If anyone else want to give this a try you will be able to see the mounting screw once you move the plastic loop restorer back out of the way. Beware there is a small coil spring and brass bush. I would suggest laying the machine on its back so these items dont fall out all over the place.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Mark Norton
Master Film Handler

Posts: 330
From: Hampton Hill, Middlesex, U.K.
Registered: Feb 2004


 - posted May 29, 2006 06:01 AM      Profile for Mark Norton   Author's Homepage   Email Mark Norton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kev,
My first GS1200 had worn badly in this area, [and everywhere else] at first I tried to build the worn shoulders back up, this didn't work as the film seemed to skate around over the sound head. I finally with a small cut down needle file slowly and carefully filed down the metal in between. I did this with the sound head in the machine but removed the head presser assembly etc for access. I filled off a good 1.5 to 2mm and this worked well.
Another point of wear in this area can come from the green guide that folds back after the film has been threaded. If the bottom loop before the sound head is formed too big this wears the guide and can lead to scratched films.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 29, 2006 06:54 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Mark, The film should never touch that fold back guide when running correctly. If it does then it would suggest that the bottom film tensioner is coming up too high which makes the loop bigger. The only time the film should come into contact with the guide is during threading.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Mark Norton
Master Film Handler

Posts: 330
From: Hampton Hill, Middlesex, U.K.
Registered: Feb 2004


 - posted May 29, 2006 11:06 AM      Profile for Mark Norton   Author's Homepage   Email Mark Norton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes that's right Kev and with a roller mod {from ST 1200}instead of the black plastic tensioner I think there is even less chance of this occuring. It's easy to see if the tensioner is not set up correctly as it will show up as wear on the guide. Anything that has the potential to scratch the film after the gate is the worst because you only find out about it the second time you run a print.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 29, 2006 12:38 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
I agree. Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Joerg Niggemann
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 127
From: Germany
Registered: May 2006


 - posted June 01, 2006 01:01 PM      Profile for Joerg Niggemann   Email Joerg Niggemann   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here are some pictures showing the older version of the sound head assay. The first picture of my GS1200 shows wear points at the entrance to the sound head area, caused by the rubber roller pressing the film down to the metal part. The second one shows the same part taken from an ST1200 without any wear at that point. The ST uses a green plastic part to guide the film into the sound head area instead of a rubber roller. I'm about to replace the original part by the one of the ST1200. Hopefully this will work and last for another 20 years for my GS1200...

Joerg

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Dimitrios Kremalis
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 129
From: Athens - Greece
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted June 01, 2006 02:08 PM      Profile for Dimitrios Kremalis   Email Dimitrios Kremalis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joerg, can you please post a foto of the green plastic part the ST uses, that can be also used with the GS?

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Joerg Niggemann
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 127
From: Germany
Registered: May 2006


 - posted June 01, 2006 03:02 PM      Profile for Joerg Niggemann   Email Joerg Niggemann   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dimitrios, here it is...

Joerg

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Dimitrios Kremalis
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 129
From: Athens - Greece
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted June 01, 2006 03:12 PM      Profile for Dimitrios Kremalis   Email Dimitrios Kremalis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you very much!
Looks like a nice replacement if it doesn't change the loop.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 01, 2006 04:26 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
That is exactly the part that Elmo would give you if you complained about loss of loop on optical prints with the forward loop machines and yes its the rubber roller which causes that very problem. However that palstic part instead of the roller will increase the clicking noise on loud pasages of sound breaking through but I think a little more noise is better than a lot of wear on a part which is no longer available.

You cant put that part on the ver3 back loop machines but you can do what I have done in my pictures and remove the roller assay. So far I have had no problems or increase in intermittent noise coming through on loud sounds.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Ugo Grassi
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 506
From: Avellino (Italy)
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted June 02, 2006 08:14 AM      Profile for Ugo Grassi   Email Ugo Grassi   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dimitrios...
on your GS I already modify that point to avoid scratches. [Wink]
Now there are two thin edges of teflon....

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Bye
Ugo

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Thomas Knappstein
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 124
From: Erwitte, Germany
Registered: Oct 2017


 - posted November 25, 2017 10:35 AM      Profile for Thomas Knappstein   Email Thomas Knappstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello!
I had this Problem too. I took one old worn out Side Guide from the Aperture Plate of an ST1200. Then cutting them with a small Proxxon Cutting Disc and fixed them on the Soundhead Unit.
Here are two Pictures before and after repairing this Part.

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