8mm Forum: Color correcting film transfers

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Topic: Color correcting film transfers

Jayson Emery
Junior
Posts: 2
From: Melbourne,VIC,Australia
Registered: Jan 2005

posted July 04, 2006 02:37 AM

Hi everyone
I've noticed when transfering Super 8 prints to DV I seem to loose some color, not to mention some of the films I transfer have noticably shifted colors. Has anyone got any good tips for color correcting these problems?

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted July 04, 2006 03:05 AM

Hi Jayson, welcome to the forum.
1 - try different settings with shutter speed and in-camera filters.
2 - if you use a non linear editing software, such as Imovie or Final Cut, these include colour timing functions.

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Joerg Polzfusz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 815
From: Berlin, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar System
Registered: Apr 2006

posted July 04, 2006 07:11 AM

Hi,

this is mainly due to two facts:
* a normal colour reversal film like the Kodachrome or Fujichrome can hold more colours than a DV-camera is able to store. (It's even worse when your DV-cam is only a single-ccd-camera.)
* most DV-cameras do have an "automatic white ballance" and some "automatic light-/contrast-balances". Both can't be turned off (in most cases) and cause most of the additional loss of colours.

When you do need a cheap way to fix it on a M$-windows-PC:
VirtualDub is a FREE video capture/processing utility:
http://www.virtualdub.org/
And this FREE "filter" for VirtualDub should be able to do some colour-shifting:
http://neuron2.net/whitebalance/whitebalance.html

Jörg

[ July 04, 2006, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: Joerg Polzfusz ]

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David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 963
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted July 04, 2006 08:26 AM

I have noticed the same, I just turn up the colour on the TV to compensate!

Nothing beats film images projected from film however.

Welcome Jayson, good to know there is someone else from Melbourne on board here.

David

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 04, 2006 10:21 AM

Yes Jayson welcome to the forum.

Knowledgeable bunch of people on this forum where all things film is concerned (and more besides).

Enjoy, Kev [Smile]

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 04, 2006 07:07 PM

Welcome, Jayson!

If you're doing the transfer yourself with a DV camera, you can achieve better color reproduction by grabbing a manual white balance off a white object in the film. Keep using this balance for the entire reel.

Doug

--------------------
I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 06, 2006 02:57 AM

Hello Jayson

Welcome to the forum. [Smile]

Mike

--------------------
Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Jayson Emery
Junior
Posts: 2
From: Melbourne,VIC,Australia
Registered: Jan 2005

posted July 08, 2006 10:35 PM

Thanks everyone,

I'm using a Panasonic 3cc camera, with an Elmo St1200, at the moment i'm projecting onto an a3 sheet of white paper, plan to buy a screen one day soon, or maybe one of those film transfer boxes, what do you think of those boxes?

Hi David, good to know other people in Melbourne have an interest in film, know any good shops around Melbourne for equipment, so far ebay and trash & treasure have been my online resources. :-)

Jayson

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David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 963
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted July 09, 2006 12:26 AM

They are good sources Jayson. Considering here in Melbourne we used to have several shops that specialised just in Super 8, it is not so good that we are now left without any.

The Camberwell Camera Collectors Fair that runs twice a year usually has a good amount of Super 8 gear and film. There are many collectors and enthusiasts that I know through the cinema business and of course the Reel Deals magazine that is avilable through subscription and is essentially private and dealers ads of all types of film and gear for sale. You can find details at the CATHS website (search and you'll find it easily).

I am about to put an ebay store on line with a lot of the Super 8 gear I have collected over the years. I have always supplied gear to students and others who have asked, but I'm about to formalise it a little more. I have Kodak 64t stock for sale at good prices too. So look out for the cameras, projectors and accessories at the Super 8 Centre very soon.

I like your choice of projector too.

David

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Joerg Polzfusz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 815
From: Berlin, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar System
Registered: Apr 2006

posted July 09, 2006 08:29 AM

Hi,

when projecting through one of those film transfer boxes with a normal projector, you'll get the "hotspot"-problem: The picture's center will be much brighter than the border. There's a plug-in for virtual-dub to remove this effect later on your PC. But I've never tried it... hence a screen will probably give you the same or even better results. (A screen will also give better results than a sheet of paper.)

IMHO those boxes are only great when you've got a modified projector with an opaque glass between lamp and film. (A few boxes do have an opaque glass on the projector's side of the box. They might give better results, too. Did anyone on this board already tried them?)

Jörg

P.S.: Oooppss... "hotspot" was the english term, not "highlight"... [Wink]

[ July 12, 2006, 04:50 AM: Message edited by: Joerg Polzfusz ]

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Freddy Van de Putte
Junior
Posts: 9
From: Ghent, Belgium, Europe
Registered: Mar 2006

posted July 12, 2006 01:43 AM

Hello,

Do not use one of these boxes... not good! Hotspot!
A surface mirror and condenser lens (Workprinter setup) is much better.

Some people are using a 80mm slide projector lens instead of the original film projector lens. If your camcorder has a 12x optical zoom, you can point your camcorder straight to this 80mm lens.

ATTENTION: you can not use the original light source, you could blow up the CCD!! Use a 35Watt halogen spot instead.

It works even better if you point the halogen spot at a 45° reflector. Then the film frame receives reflected light, this eliminates hotspot almost 100%.

Now, with this system and a 3CCD camcorder, color reproduction should be very good.

Fred.

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Knut Nordahl
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 173
From: Norway
Registered: Dec 2005

posted July 12, 2006 08:18 AM

Hi Jayson, and welcome.

as the others say, don't bother with the transfer boxes or "Telescreens" or what they are called. The way you are doing it is better. Try setting the white balance on the white paper with just the projected light on it, no film.

As Freddy say some are using 80mm lenses for transfering.
I am one of those people and you can see this thread for more info about that. 80mm thread. Results are great.

Mind you the example in that thread is from a faded film, the transfer was quick and dirty, i had a wrong diffuser and to brigth bulb. I am now hoping to get some time to change all that, and try again.

This set-up is very easy to do, and it gives very good results.

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Carlos Plaza
Junior
Posts: 22
From: Setauket, NY USA
Registered: Mar 2006

posted July 18, 2006 07:52 AM

Knut's solution looks great...I would also recommend putting a contrast reduction filter on your camcorder-especially if projecting directly to the lens of the camcorder. This will compensate for the dynamic limits of digital video and you will not lose the details in the brightest and darkest areas of your movies.
Best of luck,
Carlos

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