8mm Forum: Film Guard and Tape Splices

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Topic: Film Guard and Tape Splices

Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 14, 2006 03:18 AM

Hello Guys

I just recently editied together about 800ft of Kodachrome shot on our big trip and then diligently cleaned and lubed the whole film using Film Guard.

The first showing was great, but on the second run through a couple of days later, two splices came apart.

I'm wondering if the Film Guard might have dissolved the solvent on the splices, has any one else had this happen to them?

Mike [Frown]

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted August 14, 2006 04:09 AM

Mike, this happens a lot with film cleaners. You should let the film rest a little longer before putting it into the projector.

What I generally do is that I clean each reel, let them rest for several days, then I splice them together, drying gently the area of each splice. The whole film will be good for several screenings.

If you want to lube the film again, wipe it immediatly afterwards with a dry, clean, lint free cloth. In doing so, it will leave a very thin film (haha!) on the film.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 15, 2006 12:32 PM

Mike,

I follow the same procedure as Jean-Marc, no splicing for a few days after using FilmGuard. If I'm cleaning a film that has previously been spliced, I make sure to apply it very lightly in the area around the edit, and then wipe it quickly with a seperate cloth. Wait.....I've just repeated everything Jean-Marc said....

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted August 15, 2006 06:34 PM

Are we talking about tape splices here? I'm assuming that's the case since I can't imagine cement splices coming apart because of FilmGuard. OTOH I've never used FG, only FilmRenew, and I prefer to clean my films after all the editing and leadering is done. Can't say I've had any problems with tape or cement splices due to it.

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted August 15, 2006 07:12 PM

Jan, yes we talk about tape splices. Hence Doug and me mentioning the fact of letting the film rest prior to cutting and editing. FR and FG have roughly the same effect.

It's OK, Doug, I know I can be mesmerizing sometimes... Or so my goldfish wants me to believe...

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Marc Marti
Film Handler

Posts: 66
From: La Vall d'Uixo (Spain)
Registered: Jun 2005

posted August 16, 2006 09:39 AM

I don't recommend tape splices except for an urgency in the middle of a projection.

Cement splicing is less noticiable (tape gets dirty around the edges and sometimes makes a little flash on the screen) and it will last forever. So for me there's no better option.

Hammann cutters are the best, but a Bolex splicer is second to none.

Good Luck!

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Marc

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 16, 2006 11:28 AM

I have a pro Ciro splicer that resembles the big boy 35mm ones they make. You flip the film over, and when done have pressed and cut the holes. Yes, this is for super 8 and is more elaborate than the typical lower cost Ciro tape splicer on the market.

I reviewed the website for Ciro Italy, and was surprised to find they recommend 4 frame tape (16mm) used in this splicer for all super 8 splicing.

I have switched as suggested and I find the splices to be stronger than the 2 frame tape. This splicer has the knurled knob to adjust the gap between the frames. I actually have it set for a very slight overlap (similar to but not as much as a wet splice). I feel this makes a stronger splice to begin with; and it also hides the slight gap from the frame lines, sometimes seen on the screen.

For those using this type of splicer, a great cleaning tool is a common paper clip. Simply unbend it so one end of the wire is straight. The wire will easily slip into the punch out holes in the matrix. Very easy to clean out those holes where the cut out perfs can clog and stick.

I've been using FG for a long time and never have had splices come apart. But I also splice first then lubricate AFTER the make up is done.

CG

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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 16, 2006 03:44 PM

I forgot to add one thing to my previous post.

No offense to Jean Marc. But I dissagree with waiting to put the films in the projector. I feel you guys should take a closer look at how you apply the film cleaner.

A Kelmar cleaner for 35mm in theaters is designed to sit on the top of the penthouse (projector machine) and the film is cleaned seconds before it runs through the machine. The Kelmar cleaner application is to spray the Filmguard to the cloths that rotate driven by film play via worm gear mechanics.

Therefore if you are NOT using a Kelmar cleaner and if possible you are putting to much cleaner on to the cloth you use between rewind cranks or projector arms, then it is your application method that needs to be addressed.

I use a Kelmar cleaner and I do run the films immediately after a cleaning and I do not have these kinds of problems you speak of.

No offense to anyone here, of course!

Chip G

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 16, 2006 04:26 PM

I agree with Chip on this one. I think it's down to over application of the Film Renew.

I use this product myself and to date dont have the problem of having my Wurker patches coming adrift.

I use a lint free cloth between my rewinds and about 4 applictaions (each 300ft) to the cloth is enough to do a complete 1200ft reel. I then run the film back through a dry lint free cloth to remove any excess and it also helps to smooth the application out.

1 application is about half a dozen drops.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 16, 2006 10:14 PM

Sorry to disagree, Gentlemen. I never run a film through my projector until I've applied FilmGuard, and I'm careful not to over apply. If I tried to edit with a tape splicer shortly after cleaning, the splice will come off during projection. If I wait a day or two, the splice holds. I'd rather have the film protected during it's initial run than start splicing right away.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 17, 2006 02:59 AM

Thanks for all the imput chaps. I've never had this happen before so it must be due to something I'm doing differently this time, at first I wondered if it might have been due to a dud batch of splicing tapes but after reading your responses above I wonder if I'm applying too much cleaner and / or not allowing proper drying time.

It has always been my habbit to clean and lube the film after editing or spicing as however hard I try I find the editing process is bound to introuce fluff, feathers and dog hairs to the film (and I don't even have a dog).

So, I'm thinking; use less cleaner, and dry the film off after cleaning with a dry lint free cloth paying particular attention to the splices, then allow a few days for the film to settle before projection.

Thanks again chaps.

Mike

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Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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