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Author Topic: What Films did you show last night?
Akshay Nanjangud
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 637
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2011


 - posted January 19, 2012 06:36 PM      Profile for Akshay Nanjangud   Email Akshay Nanjangud   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Lee. I was somewhat serious when I inquired about the quality of Niles' prints. You see, I have My Man Godfrey(1936) on Niles which has a softer focus too. Moreover, the sound was poor.

Why did we have films with soft focus? Why did we have films with poor sound? I am expecting the answers to be unconnected. Also, I know it must be related to technology, but more specifics would help in clearer understanding. Does anyone know?

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted January 19, 2012 09:20 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Poor quality hinges upon:

1. The negative source material. Are the negs original, or have they've been duped?
These factors may subsequently yield, second or even third generational results.

2. The lab and the lab work. This includes the equipment and quality control.

Imagine purchasing these titles, when they were new and extremely exepensive?
Poor sound:
1. Has the film been recorded from 16mm films?
The quality control is key to exceptional prints.

The projector must be good too.

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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 19, 2012 09:25 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Also, I know it must be related to technology, but more specifics would help in clearer understanding. Does anyone know?

Akhsay, same thing with today. We can have the same movies, one with good quality and another one with very low quality. You can find low quality DVD at dollarstores. This is mostly for public domain films.

So I believe during that time, low print quality films are related to the production cost.

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Winbert

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Akshay Nanjangud
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 637
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2011


 - posted January 19, 2012 11:34 PM      Profile for Akshay Nanjangud   Email Akshay Nanjangud   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, guys. Can one of you answer:

What is a dupe print?
How is a dupe print made?

Here's my understanding of film. Take a camera -> shoot -> develop negative -> develop positive -> positive print is used for projection. Correct? How can we get a dupe somewhere here?

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
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 - posted January 20, 2012 12:12 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A "dupe" print is one that is not made directly from the first generation source negative, (well, that's a readers digest answer). This means a print that is "dupey" could be many generations down from the original, and with each generation down from the original source there is ...

more grain
less sharpness
less contrast to the print (instead of beautiful grey tones (for instance) on a B/W print, you have varying degrees of just stark black and glaring whites).

... among other hazards.

Perhaps a better explanation would be using a cassette tape to record music. Lets say that you record off of a CD some music on a decent quality cassette tape.

Now, that cassette tape may sound OK, but not quite as good as the CD.

Now, instead of recording directly from the CD, you decide to make another copy of the music, but from the cassette you recorded.

With each generation that you do that, (recording from cassette to cassette, instead of CD) you will find more tape "hiss" in the overall recording.

This is why I always love when recording artists re-release thier music, they go back to the session tapes instead of just copying what was already released on CD.

Simon and Garfunkel's box collection is a great example. They're greatest hits CD, that was available for years, had a lot of tape hiss to the recordings. When they released a box set of they're music some years ago, they went back to the session tapes, cleaned them up, and it was like night and day, the recordings sounded alive and fresh!

I wen on a bit, but that gives you an idea about "dupey" super 8 or other gauge film prints.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Akshay Nanjangud
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2011


 - posted January 20, 2012 01:32 PM      Profile for Akshay Nanjangud   Email Akshay Nanjangud   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Osi. I needed this explanation. Thanks!

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Martin Davey
Film Handler

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From: Southampton UK
Registered: Dec 2011


 - posted January 21, 2012 04:13 AM      Profile for Martin Davey   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Davey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Last night I ran a few 200ft films on super 8....

Castle of Death (walton 'Vampire circus' extract,B/W silent)

The Dapper Dalmatian

Knightly Knight Bugs

Monstro the whale

The Prince and the Dragon

Counter Chase (Walton 'Callan' extract)

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Wayne Tuell
Master Film Handler

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From: Minden, NV
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 - posted January 21, 2012 04:19 PM      Profile for Wayne Tuell   Author's Homepage   Email Wayne Tuell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Hollywood Knights in 16mm [Big Grin]

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www.16mmDrive-InFilms.com

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1235
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
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 - posted January 22, 2012 07:03 PM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Watched the Elvis 68 TV Special 1200ft Red Fox print,Haven't seen it for a while and surprised how the colours have held up on it.This was one of the first prints i ever re-recorded in Stereo and it still sounds superb,enjoyed it as always,Mark.

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Akshay Nanjangud
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 637
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2011


 - posted January 22, 2012 07:33 PM      Profile for Akshay Nanjangud   Email Akshay Nanjangud   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yesterday, I had a quick look at a Star Wars digest I received as a gift. In an abridgment of Son of the Sheik, the effort is on narration of the complete story. Here, only select scenes were on show with no focus on the narrative.

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Larry Arpin
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 952
From: Sunland, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted January 23, 2012 01:48 PM      Profile for Larry Arpin   Author's Homepage   Email Larry Arpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Akshay-How did you get such clear and sharp pictures?

Mark-I remember when the Elvis special was first telecast. Great show.

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Akshay Nanjangud
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 637
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2011


 - posted January 23, 2012 02:05 PM      Profile for Akshay Nanjangud   Email Akshay Nanjangud   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Larry, I use my digital camera in the following settings: SCN -> ISO (shoot in low light with no flash and reduce blur). I found this the best setting in my camera. Also, I typically take pics when I see a scene lasting for long, with characters not moving much and so on; I guess everyone does this.

Honestly, I prefer the pics by Gerald and Dino.

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Laksmi Breathwaite
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From: Las Vegas
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 - posted January 25, 2012 01:42 AM      Profile for Laksmi Breathwaite   Email Laksmi Breathwaite   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I watched tonight my digest of BUCK RODGERS. I always get a kick out of this movie because it takes me back to a guilty pleasure which tones harkened back more to Classic Star Trek with Buck's weekly womanizing reminiscent of Captain Kirk. It became a guessing game as to which colorful flavor of spandex Colonel Wilma Deering would be wearing each week, but who could forget most of all the lovely Pamela Hensley as the exotic Princess Ardala! Here is some info on the movie. Buck Rogers in the 25th Century is an American science fiction adventure television series produced by Universal Studios. The series ran for two seasons between 1979–1981, and the feature-length pilot episode for the series was released as a theatrical film several months before the series aired. The film and series were developed by Glen A. Larson, based upon the character Buck Rogers created in 1928 by Philip Francis Nowlan that had previously been featured in comic strips, novellas, a serial film, and on television and radio.20th century astronaut is caught in a freak accident in deep space, causing his craft Ranger 3 to be blown into a trajectory that returns him to earth almost 5 centuries later. Earth is recovering from nuclear war and is coming under hostile attack by the Draconian empire. The later series was based on a spaceship exploring the unknown reaches of space. I love Wilma and the Draconian princess is a babe!  -

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Gerald Santana
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1060
From: Cottage Grove OR
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 - posted January 25, 2012 03:33 AM      Profile for Gerald Santana   Author's Homepage   Email Gerald Santana   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Laksmi,

Awesome descriptions and screen-shots! I had the 2 x 400' digest of Buck Rogers and the 21st Century, it's hilarious and always was a big hit.

Is this a 400' cut down?

And Akshay, your screen shots are terrific as well keep up the great work!

Last night I screened many films but, did not have time to set up my camera.

I took a look at The Wizard of Oz (1939) on 16mm with some fade but otherwise, it still had fair color, stronger in many scenes. It was a composite of a few different film stocks.

Next, I have a couple of screenings coming up and have been having trouble with warping on a 2 x1200' print of King Kong (1933) on Super 8 so, a few days ago I gave it a coat of Film Gaurd after transferring it into smaller 600' reels.

Tonight, 50' of reel 4 wound up on the floor anyway. [Embarrassed] So plan "C" was to split up that reel and that seemed to work but now, I have a 5 x 600' print to run for the screening.

Later, I ran a 1200' Super 8 reel of Columbia Classics World Heavyweight Boxing Highlights from 1882-1974. It features all of the important title matches from John L. Sullivan to George Foreman.

This print ran very smoothly although spliced, and ended around the time of Joe Louis. I need to splice together another 800' or so of highlights from Rocky Marciano to Muhammad Ali. I highly recommend the Columbia Classics over the Universal 8 or Castle Films matches.

Finally, the kid needed to go to sleep so I put on Walt Disney's The Ugly Duckling (1939) and then The Dapper Dalmatian on Super 8. Both films still have fair color, the kid loved them and was yelling out "duck" and "dog" before he went to sleep.

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http://lostandoutofprintfilms.blogspot.com/

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Lee Mannering
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From: The Projection Box
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 - posted January 25, 2012 05:48 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Akshay. One of the Blackhawk prints I replaced with a Niles was a 400ft W.C.Fields. Blackhawk had removed the original opening title sequence but the Niles had it complete with slightly better print quality. As has already been said much of what wound up on 8mm was due to the original master material and system used to duplicate. The better prints come via 16mm negatives although some labs such as Perrys in the UK used double run 8mm printing.
[Cool]

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Laksmi Breathwaite
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From: Las Vegas
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 - posted January 25, 2012 10:02 AM      Profile for Laksmi Breathwaite   Email Laksmi Breathwaite   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Gerald. Yes it is a 400' cut down to a 200' digest. Thanks for your comment . Did you see my WIZARD OF OZ screen shots ? I just this month watched my 400'.  -

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Gian Luca Mario Loncrini
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Posts: 1948
From: Verona (Italy)
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted January 25, 2012 10:22 AM      Profile for Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Author's Homepage   Email Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
PROFONDO ROSSO by Dario Argento (Italy, 1975).

Italian bootleg from a very bad 35mm positive (cropped and shortened) issued both on 7*400ft and 4*600ft reels.
All prints I know about are on faded Eastman.
The one I recently acquired my pics refer to is on Agfa.

Bad print, but very good color and big fun.

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I remember when I was (super) 8 years old...

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 25, 2012 12:50 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It looks good to me Gian

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Winbert

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Gian Luca Mario Loncrini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1948
From: Verona (Italy)
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 - posted January 25, 2012 12:59 PM      Profile for Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Author's Homepage   Email Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ciao Win! Thanks a lot for you kind comment. Color is good and the title is very popular, here. But I'd say it is not a good print. Poor sharpness and a very bad source. But, once again, I'm very happy since it's quite impossible to get prints of this on Agfa. It was indeed a great find and purchase. Take care ! [Wink]

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I remember when I was (super) 8 years old...

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Mark Mander
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Posts: 1235
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
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 - posted January 25, 2012 06:31 PM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First film we watched was the Pearl Harbor super 8 Derann extract,This is the scope/stereo version,Hard to get a decent picture as it's so action packed!!
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Next we watched Commando on 16mm,Nice print and great film!!
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Gerald Santana
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From: Cottage Grove OR
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 - posted January 27, 2012 01:50 AM      Profile for Gerald Santana   Author's Homepage   Email Gerald Santana   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Last we night screened a couple of titles in our collection, recently acquired. We started with Phantom Ship (1935) aka The Mystery of the Mary Celeste personally, I like Phantom Ship. This is a Blackhawk print on 4 x 400' reels however, after mounting the second reel and running it, was surprised to see that it was a second reel one -- no reel two! [Roll Eyes]

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So, I tool it off and put on a comedy, sort of an unusual one A Pair of Tights (1929) from the Hal Roach studio. Another Blackhawk print on a 400' reel with great comedienne actresses, the legendary Edgar Kennedy and the great Spec O'Donell.

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You may remember Marion Byron as Steamboat Bill Jr's love interest, here she plays counter part with Anita Garvin in a hilarious little comedy.

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It defiantly has a Laurel and Hardy approach and at one point is so absurd that everyone plays into the absurdities! I'll never have an ice cream cone without thinking of this movie again. [Smile]

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Laksmi Breathwaite
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Posts: 771
From: Las Vegas
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 - posted January 28, 2012 02:55 AM      Profile for Laksmi Breathwaite   Email Laksmi Breathwaite   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Gerald nice screen shots of that old comedy classic . I watched Charlie Chaplin classic 1 AM on a 400' reel Black Hawk. One A.M. was a unique Charlie Chaplin silent film created for Mutual Films in 1916. It was the first film he starred in alone, except for a brief scene of Albert Austin playing a cab driver. Chaplin plays the role of a wealthman coming home late, after too much to drink. He only wants to go to bed, but 'everything' around him prevents him. Talk about a comedy you can't stop laughing at. Wow I love Charlie!  - A drunken homeowner has a difficult time getting about in his home after arriving home late at night.
 - I love the part that he has so much trouble with sleeping in his bed then whines up in his bath tub  -

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Panayotis A. Carayannis
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Posts: 968
From: Athens,Greece
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 - posted January 28, 2012 07:59 AM      Profile for Panayotis A. Carayannis   Email Panayotis A. Carayannis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hasn't anybody noticed that the super 8 Blackhawk ONE A.M. is severely shortened? It runs about 16 minutes. and the quality of it, is not the best! I don't know if older,or std 8 copies were fuller and their negative wore out or if they were working always from that same negative.
At one time,years ago,I found myself in possession of multiple copies of (mostly) Chaplin comedies from Blackhawk,Walton and Film Office. Most of them had scenes missing from one copy and available in another,or sequences edited differently and I found also,that Blackhawk didn't always have the best quality! Blackhawk copies were,with the above exception, complete while the others' ran about 17-18 minutes. So, I sat down with two editors and am today the proud owner of complete(?) high quality titles like THE COUNT and A NIGHT OUT.

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Michael De Angelis
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From: USA
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 - posted January 28, 2012 09:08 AM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Panayotis,

Clipped scenes does occur with distributors and the various negs
that exist.

In the late 1970's, Blackhawk re-released the 12 Mutuals
with complete materials. I

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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10187
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted January 28, 2012 12:37 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OUCH! I'm so sad to hear that you got a two reel 1 print, (and I'm betting the seller knew it!)! I've personally always wanted to find a print of this feature and from your screenshots, I can see that the image quality is one of the better Blackhawk features. ThanX for verifying that.

Also, great screenshots, Mark!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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