8mm Forum: A Film Deteriation Question ...

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Topic: A Film Deteriation Question ...

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted June 04, 2008 08:06 PM

I probably mis-spelled that word on the title but here's the question.

I was screening a very ancient print of "Big Business" (Blackhawk print, really a top notch print, very sharp, great contrast), and I noticed something I hadn't seen before ...

There was a certian "browning to the image that would come and go. When examining the film itself, frame by frame, I noticed what I can only describe as little dots of "rust" (it was brownish or rust colored), some frames having more, some less.

What is this film deteriation called? It's on black and white film and I can't ever remember seeing this on color film.

Any info guys, (as I'm sure I will hear back on soon.)

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 04, 2008 08:14 PM

Is this a print of Big Business with a music track? Could the rust be particles from the sound stripe?

Who knows? Maybe this is the veteran of some really dirty projector and the particles are from other films' stripes.

Sometimes I'm tempted to use "Big Business" as a Christmas film....but the story isn't exactly in the Holiday Spirit!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 04, 2008 09:08 PM

Osi,

Sounds like the old bad washing/processing predicament. Your print has a similar problem to one I had (along with a few other Forum members) back in 2003. We discussed this here.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted June 04, 2008 09:26 PM

I don't quite think that the link held the problem. This is a very old Super 8 print of this, and the film is getting warped
and the little dots almost look like the kind of deteriation that you find on old nitrate 35MM film, though I doubt that this Super 8 print is nitrate.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Barry Johnson
Master Film Handler

Posts: 358
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2003

posted June 05, 2008 06:49 AM

Its almost a certainty that if your print is starting to warp,then its getting too hot,and that browning,could be burning or scorching of the film.
This phenomena was prevalent on Std 8 with variable speed control with users running them too slow so they would last om screen longer! Ultimately they print almost warped in 180degrees,but they still ran! Mind you,getting them to fit on a standard spool was a joke! So was the durability of Std8.As Super8 is flimsy stuff it wouldnt take long for this to occur if there was a problem. Would suggest you checked the heat filters if fitted on your projector.Maybe even the lamp is poorly focussed giving a high spot of heat or even overrun.??
Just a couple of theories to ponder on.

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Standard8 rules!!

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted June 05, 2008 07:27 AM

Sounds like what is sometimes called "Redox" by film archivists - this is a chemical change in the silver particles causing oxidation spots in the emulsion. Bad washing, high heat storage, contaminants from cardboard storage boxes - these all have been given as possible causes..

-Mike

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 06, 2008 06:05 AM

Unless yours was in a metal or plastic can? There isn't much air that can circulate through a can, yet with a cardboard box, the lid is lightly set to allow for it. No real correlation between cellulose and cardboard equalling a deteriorative state (Unless someone can provide such) - Methinks you had a storage problem, climate variations of hot and cold and just a plain old-fashioned vitafilm cleansing might help - That's my nickel on it - Shorty

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