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Author Topic: The Strange Case of ABC Films ...
Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted February 24, 2009 07:40 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The ABC Films releases are a strange lot.

In every case, these 5X400ft releases easily fit onto a 4X400ft format, so why would they use 5X400ft? After all, wouldn't they have saved money with one less plastic reel used?

The only reason for 5X400ft, (in my opinion), was to make the buyer think that with 5X400ft, they were getting a full feature.

Most of the reels would have around 15 minutes and no more.

On the plus side, some of they're releases, (such as "Charly" (1968) that we just watched last night) have some of the sharpest mono soundtracks I have ever heard, even taking into account Derann's modern mono soundtracks.

Lastly, what were the ABC releases? Douglas?

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted February 24, 2009 09:20 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi,

Perhaps the films are mounted according to
the original lab sections. Or if needed to fit on
smaller reels for small capacity machines?

Were the ABC film releases slightly edited?

I found that the super 8 print of L&H's The Devils brother is
mounted on 5 - 400 foot reels and each reel's
action is always continued onto the next reel;
as in the wishing well gag scene.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted February 24, 2009 09:25 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Micheal (and good to hear from you!),

They were edited and depending upon the length of the original feature, they were either heavily edited or slightly edited.

Each feature it appeared was never more than 80 or so minutes.
However, as in the case of "Charly" the original film was only about 100 minutes, so there wasn't much of a loss, (actually, it wasn't bad at all!), buit in the case of, "The Last Valley" which ran, (I believe) 130 minutes, you lose a lot more.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

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From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 24, 2009 10:51 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi,

Here's a thread about ABC from a couple years back.

Cabaret
Charly
Duel in the Sun
For the Love of Ivy
Junior Bonner
Killing of Sister George, The
Last Valley, The
Lovers and Other Strangers
Notorious
Paradine Case, The
Portarit of Jennie
Rebecca
Song of Norway
Spellbound
Spiral Staircase, The
Straw Dogs
Take the Money and Run
They Shoot Horses, Don't They?
Tom Sawyer
Too Late the Hero
Whatever Happened to Aunt Alice?

 -

 -

Doug

[ February 25, 2009, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Douglas Meltzer ]

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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John W. Black
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 536
From: Deptford,N.J.
Registered: Mar 2008


 - posted February 25, 2009 12:50 AM      Profile for John W. Black   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All the color features were edited.However,the black and white ones were released in complete versions.

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Beat em or burn em,they go up pretty quick

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Panayotis A. Carayannis
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 969
From: Athens,Greece
Registered: Jul 2008


 - posted February 25, 2009 09:02 AM      Profile for Panayotis A. Carayannis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The abc boxes stated "color films edited to 80-83 minutes".The b&w films are complete,with one exception. THE PARADINE CASE box says "120 minutes", which is about the actual running time ,while it is actually edited down to 80.The NOTORIOUS box states "130 minutes",while the film is complete in its actual length of 101 minutes !!

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
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 - posted February 25, 2009 10:08 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The black and white ABC films that I have are both edited. I have 'Spellbound' and 'The Spiral Staircase'. They have both had about 10 minutes chopped out. Possibly this was the length of film that was run on TV, to make space for commercials. In any case it is annoying, as you are expecting to watch the full length of the film as released to theatres. In the case of 'Spellbound' you get the definite sense that something is missing.
Both my ABC prints are very good print quality, with loud and clear mono sound.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted February 25, 2009 10:17 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the list Douglas!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted February 25, 2009 12:18 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does anyone know if "Jennie" had the green-tinted sequences in the final reel as well as the color insert of the protrait before the fade-out or was it all strictly b&w?

[ February 25, 2009, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Brad Kimball ]

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: USA
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 - posted February 25, 2009 12:30 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have the ABC feature print of "Take The Money And Run" and I screened it a few months ago and I don't remember noticing anything being cut out....it seemed complete. I'm comparing it to the laserdisc I have. I did not watch them back to back.

Does anyone else have this feature and know about any editing?

Bill

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted February 25, 2009 02:58 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill,

That one may be a case of nothing being edited out.

The original run time for that feature was only 85 minutes, so, with the average run time of 80-83 minutes on these ABC releases, you may have lucked out on a ABC Films release that was actually a full unedited feature. I don't remember there being any highly objectionable material in that comedy.

By the way, great comedy film!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Panayotis A. Carayannis
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Athens,Greece
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 - posted February 25, 2009 03:16 PM      Profile for Panayotis A. Carayannis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The copy of REBECCA is complete at 130 minutes.
Paul
Are you sure THE SPIRAL STAIRCASE is edited ? Its actual running time is only 83 minutes.
Brad
I don't think the abc JENNIE had the color bits.It would be much trouble for them!!

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted February 25, 2009 04:17 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That was a good question, actually. The film "Charly" had some scenes on the last reel, that go from Black and White footage to color, but it was all placed on color film stock.

In the case of the other film, it was a largely black and white film with a few colored sequences, so that ones more doubtful.

The more I'm hearing on this specific post, it sounds as if ABC films got off they're 80 minute style and embraced releasing full unedited features.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Eberhard Nuffer
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 141
From: Stuttgart, Germany
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted February 25, 2009 04:24 PM      Profile for Eberhard Nuffer   Email Eberhard Nuffer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill, Osi,

theres is nothing cut from ABC's "Take the Money And Run" feature. I have measured it on my Elmo projector, and it has a running time of exactly 85 minutes (519m/approx. 1730ft)

Eberhard

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted February 25, 2009 06:18 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi and Eberhard,

Thank you for the info...I also have the Ken (ABC) feature "Notorious" which also to my memory seems complete.

I'm a big Hitchcock buff and this is one of my prizes. Beautiful condition in the original box with sweet graphics.

Bill

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