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Topic: Plastic spindle for a Beaulieu 708EL take-up reel anyone?
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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015
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posted February 28, 2017 09:31 AM
Hello,
Andrew, Paul, reviewing the content of the main subject , I have just miss to tell you or emphasize something (in fact this is something which is just crossing my mind again).
When I worked out the Reel carrier part (many years ago....), I remember to have observed a BIG DIFFERENCE between Reels products Quality and more particularly concerning fitting diameter (Reel Inner Diameter)
So I had to take in account this problem to allow installation from different kind of reels from the best to the worse product.
In summary, as I cut the spindle to the minimum diameter observed, the fitting clearance is important before tightening the finger knob, depending on reel source ........
Of course, once the knob tightened, any quality of reel is perfectly secured and do not float at all.....
So far as I can remember, HEURTIER projectors allow to firmly fit reels as their Spindle keys show a slopped (Bias) cut.
So , as much you push keys from outside to inside , better is secured the reel.
This is a clever design, quite simple, which works pretty good too....
However, ELMO keys are locking in a same plane and are not in contact with the reel flange......
[ February 28, 2017, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]
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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015
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posted March 01, 2017 04:42 AM
Hello Paul, Andrew,
Here are measures I record for mating diameters :
1) Elmo Spindle ===> 12,56mm
2) Beaulieu Modified Spindle ===> 12,68mm
12,68mm is the max Diam limit. Above this dimension, Beaulieu, Elmo, Posso reels will seize a bit.
Paul, did you mean mating sides with conical surfaces in your description ?
I was thinking to this kind of solution to get a perfect centering for the reel but this a bit more difficult to perform (That could involve a spring loaded conical sleeve fitted inside securing knob or on the opposite part)
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God
Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted March 01, 2017 05:06 AM
I haven't measured the Grasso 600ft type yet Phil. Except to say they have a similar fit to the others you mention above and they have the all important solid bore!
Bonum, Grasso, Sankyo,Posso, Elmo, Gepe,Schneider, Fuji and any other quality spool I can think of, will all fit onto a spindle measuring 12.65mm very well with no slop in their fit.
Ones with hollow metal inserts into their plastic reels will not, thankfully, nor will the heavy American steel reels that only have a keyway on one side of the reel.
[ March 01, 2017, 06:24 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]
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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God
Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted March 01, 2017 11:51 PM
No Kevin I don't particularly like Grasso 600ft spools, but their centre hubs are perfectly fine.
Ordinarily, they wouldn't be on the list, but Phil was talking only of how they fit on Beaulieu spindles and from this perspective, Grasso 600 footers, made the list Kevin.
I'm sorry Kevin but no, I personally don't rate Golgberg spools as I find them way too heavy but admittedly they are well made with a bore size and design that isn't compatible in use with Beaulieu.
They've always been ok for my optical prints though Kevin.
I personally have always found, that a solid centre hub is absolutely imperative for larger spools in particular,in order to avoid "spool wobble" issues and subsequent mistrack.
[ March 02, 2017, 02:38 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]
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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"
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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015
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posted March 02, 2017 02:15 PM
Hello,
Reviewing one more time what it is talked about above, I understand much better why Paul emphasize the idea to increase knob mating surface.......
I am mainly using spools showing "solid" hub.
In case of using spools showing a recess between both rims , you can experience rims permanent distorsion if knob is overtighten .
So , as Paul said above, increasing knob diameter and matting surface will prevent you from this issue !!!!
So, what I can do , is to manage an optionnal pressure plate (Like a big washer) to install upon request between the knob and spool , as necessary.....
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God
Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted March 14, 2017 06:09 AM
I couldn't find my original post sorry from when I very first obtained the newly then manufactured Beaulieu copied spindle hubs from Edwin and for all I now know, these may now be being made to a slightly different specification than the early prototype ones I received but here was my findings regardless, Maurice..
They are made to a very good standard of precision was my first observations, the reels fitted onto the standalone spindle hubs with that familiar new "clunk" we associate with these type of plastic hubs when brand new.
The vulnerable plastic splines appeared to my eyes at least,to be somewhat thicker than the originals and the all important retaining lugs, 70% along the way down of these retaining splines, also appeared a slightly different shape and size than the originals.
In both cases this was for the better in my opinion. If you look very very closely at the Beaulieu originals, the lugs on the ends of the three splines, are all curved throughout their length.
What this means in usage is, you have a peak to climb while the reel enters onto the splines and while the splines themselves become deflected downwards, but then as the reel enters over and beyond the crest of the curvature on these lugs, the reel then slides down the opposing side of this curvature on the spline lug and then sits firmly up to the rear abutment face on the spindle hubs.
At this same point in time, the splines themselves, become relaxed again and should, when new and healthy, return to their original relaxed position and retain the reel only by this rear curvature on the lug.
When you compare this spline profile to one of Edwins, his differ in so much as the lug on the end of the three splines is differently shaped.
His are are a far more "chiseled" arrangement, where the profile is simply a tangential slope front and back, and then a straighter taller section for the peak of the lugs.
This means that while these splines do deflect a whole lot more as a result of the larger lugs, the reel sits more firmly against the abutment face due to the chamfered design of the actual lug, as opposed to the original curved design lugs.
Also, as the splines are thicker, you'd expect them to be stronger and more durable so long as the polymers used contain enough elasticity within them to allow theses splines to flex many thousands of times as required.
That is something only time would tell and so far at least, I have never needed to fit mine.
On the appearance front, these spindles do not particularly look similar to the originals.
They are of a more dull grey appearance than the original smooth shiny black originals.
Also as with any 3D printed part that so far I have personally seen, they are a much rougher surface texture also.
This of course, should be of insignificance for a part doing what these do, however.
Finally. The main reason why I personally, felt slightly disappointed with these newly designed spindle hubs, was because Edwin chose to go with original "brass or bronze" bushed type of bearing arrangement for these.
As you know, Beaulieu superseded this design by fitting a dual ball bearing type arrangement to each of these hubs to allow them to spin very very freely with heavy loads of film mounted upon them.
The original Bush bearing type were known in some instances of heavy use, to cause premature wear to the motors due to massive load felt by the motor when rewinding 2400ft reels of film.
If the bronze bearings were regularly lubricated with a fine machine oil, no problem, but otherwise over lengthy periods of heavy use, problems involving the motor windings could develop.
Because of this information above, this is why I'd much preferred if these had been identically designed to those sold by Wittners that follow the later Beaulieu design with these, the ones with the two ball bearings fitted to them in other words and the ones which cause no such motor problems on the later Beaulieu Stereo models etc etc.
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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"
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