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Author Topic: Number of prints for each title released (post 1985 production)
Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5423
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 04, 2011 10:19 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I really want to know the number of prints for each title Derann has released (no need to include trailers) to measure how big is our chance to get a particular title in the second hand market.

Anyone has a precise data on this issue?

We knew that Derann has closed down. So this information will not effect anyone/anything....I think. [Wink]

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Winbert

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Osi Osgood
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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
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 - posted November 04, 2011 11:07 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My Gawd!

That's a big task, but I agree with you, it would be quite helpful in tracking down a potential title. I believe that Derann's printing of (for instance) "Close Encounters of the Special Kind: Special edition" was only 14 or 17 prints (Spielberg put the "kibosh" on the release from what I understand), so that ones a hard one to find!

[ November 05, 2011, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: Osi Osgood ]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted November 04, 2011 11:14 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi, I knew this is a hard one if just guessing or using a logic calculation or saying "someone says".

But what I meant was if there was the actual note when Derann released those titles. I believe, Derann must have made a memo when ordering copies to the Lab, and from this memo we can find the actual number of each prints.

I am just wondering if that note is accessible. Anyone dare to get it from Adrian Simmonds?

[Wink]

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Winbert

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Pasquale DAlessio
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From: Bristol,RI, USA
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 - posted November 04, 2011 12:31 PM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio   Email Pasquale DAlessio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yo Adrian! (Rocky) [Eek!]

Would you care to release the information on how many prints you released on each title you printed? [Big Grin]

Thank you either way, [Smile]

Pat DAlessio [Smile]

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted November 04, 2011 05:00 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Close Encounters of the Special Kind
[Confused]

Hey Osi, do you read your posts after you post them?

Bill [Smile]

P. S. I like Winbert's idea...that would be good info.

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

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From: New York, NY, USA
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 - posted November 04, 2011 05:26 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have no information about features, however Derann's last few releases (shorts, such as One Froggy Evening and Ferdinand) had runs of approximately 50 prints each.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Larry Arpin
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Sunland, CA, USA
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 - posted November 04, 2011 05:40 PM      Profile for Larry Arpin   Author's Homepage   Email Larry Arpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You would have to dig up all the invoices from the labs and count how many prints were made. It's possible to guesstimate.

I would have a hard time remembering how many prints I made from years ago. I do remember printing 100 prints of the Star Wars trailers in the early 80's and I sold them all. Of course, they were printed on Eastman so they have all but faded. I sold them all.

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John Clancy
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From: Cornwall
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 - posted November 05, 2011 04:31 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage   Email John Clancy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Master and Commander was a big success and over 35 prints were struck. That was amazing so I'm sure that will give you an idea of how few features were sold in the later years. Anyone thinking of printing a Super 8 feature would be looking at a maximum print run of a dozen and then if they sell over a number of years (but unlikely unless it is a must-have release and those sort of films just don't come out any longer) perhaps additional pairs of prints could be struck.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Thomas Smith
Master Film Handler

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From: Barking, Essex, UK
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 - posted November 05, 2011 06:52 AM      Profile for Thomas Smith   Email Thomas Smith   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i think every feature had different print runs i collect mostly
the older derann features and i spoke to somebody at derann and
was told that (island of terror)starring peter cushing had only
four super 8mm prints made so who knows for sure ?

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t.smith

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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 - posted November 05, 2011 10:03 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" [Smile]

... and no, I don't tend to review my posts right away. I type way too fast but it's a habit I find hard to break.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Adrian Winchester
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From: Croydon, London, UK
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 - posted November 05, 2011 07:21 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester   Email Adrian Winchester   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert - I think in general you have no chance of obtaining such information, expect in situations such as the above when accurate figures are known. There are times when I asked Ged about certain titles and even he wasn't sure, although with certain distributors, records needed to be accurate. However, many - if not all - documents relating to Super 8 releases (such as contracts) were destroyed in Derann's last days so sadly much information can never be pin pointed in future.

I believe the most successful features of the 80s/90s (such as one or two Disney films) sold over 500 copies, but that of course only applied to the very top sellers.

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Adrian Winchester

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Winbert Hutahaean
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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted November 05, 2011 10:07 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Adrian, it was so sad knowing all documents were destroyed. For is Deraan is part of 8mm history and such documnets can help to build the whole story of 8mm scenes.

But there is still a chance to get that information, escpecially for those legal releases. I believe the studios (distributors) must still keep those contracts and number of prints for each title. But how can we get access to that info?

BTW anybody can confirm if Master and Comander was one that legal release or the opposite?

ps: I believe we can free talk about this now because Derann is no longer exist ;-)

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Winbert

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Clive Carmock
Film Handler

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From: London, UK
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 - posted December 24, 2011 02:57 PM      Profile for Clive Carmock   Email Clive Carmock   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow just 4 copies of Island of Terror - Well I have one of them - the 4x400 verion, sadly badly faded now, but includes a scene that was shortened from the DVD releases.

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Cornwall
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 - posted December 25, 2011 08:54 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage   Email John Clancy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe the last legitimate release was Fantasia 2000. But there may have been another Disney release or two after that one. I think that answers Winbert's question but we still need to be careful about what we publish on here so perhaps it would be sensible to remove this thread???

I remember a dozen prints of Close Encounters (and yes, it was the awful 'Special Edition' version) but it was Derann jumping the gun and printing before all legalities had been cleared that caused the withdrawal of this title. If it had have been the original version of the film this would have been a real loss to the hobby and probably the only way the original could now be seen.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Adrian Winchester
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From: Croydon, London, UK
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 - posted December 25, 2011 11:49 AM      Profile for Adrian Winchester   Email Adrian Winchester   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree it would be unwise to probe too much into legal issues, at least with regard to anything that happened in the last 25 years ago, so maybe Winbert could edit out the line in question. Regarding 'Close Encounters' the version I heard was that Columbia strongly objected when they discovered Derann offering one or more of their films on a 16mm list and cancelled their whole deal with them. If there's any truth in this, it seems extreme nowadays with hundreds of 16mm featurers on open sale, but it was more of a grey area then. Derann did stop selling 16mm for quite a while at this time.

I'd agree that in theory one or two distributors - perhaps in particular Disney could still have some documentation regarding royalties from Super 8 sales, considering the last payment may have been only about three years ago. But getting the information would still be a challenge; you would need to find which division had the details and even if you did, you would have to hope that they would be willing to reveal the information, and would be willing to spend the time needed to look into it. I doubt if adding to the known history of 8mm would be an incentive! I vaguely recall Ged once telling me that 20th Century Fox didn't require any detailed breakdown of prints, so probably no hope there.

[ December 26, 2011, 01:49 AM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

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Adrian Winchester

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted December 26, 2011 05:11 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Adrian, as far as I know some copyrights owner do flat rate to make the deal easier, so what Ged said about it might be true.

@ John Clancy, I don't know why when we were talking some Deraan unofficial releases, some were so worried that much but when it was about Italian pirate prints no one seems to bother. Basically they are just the same case. And because now Derann is the past, I don't think we should still cover it.

They are now (Italian and Derann) part of the history.

My 2 cents,

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Winbert

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

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From: Croydon, London, UK
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 - posted December 27, 2011 02:05 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester   Email Adrian Winchester   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert, I have to disagree with you with regard to your point to John, but I'll say why privately.

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Adrian Winchester

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