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Author Topic: Fixing Projectors!?
Grant Fitzgerald
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Owatonna, MN
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted November 26, 2011 01:21 AM      Profile for Grant Fitzgerald   Author's Homepage   Email Grant Fitzgerald   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since I have just gotten into this hobby, I was thinking that since everything we deal with is relatively old, I thought maybe I should get to know my way around projectors. Know what items do what, how to take them apart, put them back together or fix. I think this would be a great skill to have dealing with 40 year old machines. Here is the thing, all I have is the forum to learn from and that isn't as good as one on one hands on learning. Another thing is, I have never been good with my hands, I mean to say, I was never a guy who fixed up things like cars or electronics. So I have almost know knowledge of where to start. In my first month of the hobby, I have had two projectors spot functioning properly. I have gotten help from you glorious men on the forum, but still my problems remain. So how do you all suggest I learn?

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted November 26, 2011 02:27 AM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would say start with a specific projector that you like (no sense learning about something you don't like) and then watch it move while you hand crank it.....Then progress to taking something small apart and putting back together. For instance usually the arms on most projectors will have a screw or two that you can remove and look inside...Once you start understanding the basics of the machine then you can locate the simple problems yourself, and for the larger ones always ask, since that is the way we all learn in general...The more you ask the more information you will be given

--------------------
"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 26, 2011 02:31 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you are not good in electronic and mechanic things, don't ever try to open a projector. You will make it even worst.

To fix a projector need a special skill, talent and patient.

My advise is to sell your current projector and buy another one.

cheers

--------------------
Winbert

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Grant Fitzgerald
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Owatonna, MN
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted November 26, 2011 01:01 PM      Profile for Grant Fitzgerald   Author's Homepage   Email Grant Fitzgerald   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Why would I sell my projector when I just got it a couple of weeks ago. It worked perfect at first then suddenly stopped functioning correctly. Also why would I sell a projector that doesn't work. I would really like to get my two projectors I have fixed and keep them.

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008


 - posted November 26, 2011 02:27 PM      Profile for Martin Jones     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think Winbert's point is that if, as you say, you are not practically minded you would be well advised not to attempt the kind of tasks that are beyond your already acquired skills.
There are no step by step instruction, either published or that can be easily written for you that would enable you to repair the kind of faults (often obscure) that you may come across, without assuming a certain level of understanding of mechanical and electrical appliances on your part.
This is NOT a "put down"; it's based on the large number of instances of people seeking assistance and achieving little at best.. and ruining a complex machine at worst.
What kind of mechanical or electrical skills DO you have? Can you successfully change the washer in a faucet, locate a fault in house wiring using a multimeter? Give us some idea of the EXTENT of your practical skills and we will be better placed to advise as the degree of success you might achieve through your own efforts or whether you would be advised to seeks "hands on " help.
Regards,
Martin

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009


 - posted November 26, 2011 02:45 PM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A tip on this front is that if you have less-than-average skills/experience with this sort of thing, go for an ELMO, they're alot easier than the other brands of projectors in terms of fixing, aswell as spare parts pricing.

--------------------
Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

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Grant Fitzgerald
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Owatonna, MN
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted November 26, 2011 03:03 PM      Profile for Grant Fitzgerald   Author's Homepage   Email Grant Fitzgerald   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lets just say I have almost zero mechanic experience. : ) So if both of my projectors aren't working properly what should I do with the, if I can't fix them myself. The only thing is that what i was told to fix a problem on my Chinon 7000 seemed relatively easy. I did what I was told but it didn't help anything and a new problem came up.

I mean I know how to work electronics well but I don;t no anything about fixing them.

[ November 26, 2011, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Grant Fitzgerald ]

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Thomas Dafnides
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: St. Louis, Missouri USA
Registered: Dec 2009


 - posted November 26, 2011 04:59 PM      Profile for Thomas Dafnides     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How are your projectors malfunctioning? Usually, the first thing to cause problems, in a 40 year plus machine is the lack of lubricant .

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Grant Fitzgerald
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Owatonna, MN
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted November 26, 2011 05:11 PM      Profile for Grant Fitzgerald   Author's Homepage   Email Grant Fitzgerald   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have two posts on my problems.

Chinon 7000-

1) http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006629

(New problem)
2) http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006658

Bell & Howell MX60- http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006655

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 27, 2011 07:25 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Grant, don't get me wrong. As Martin says above, fixing something do need special level of skill.

I have a friend here that even to tight the bolt/nut will make it even worst, either break the base or make it loose forever.

Projector is a complex machine and unskilled person sometimes make a mistake for a simple matter.

Another option is to bring the projector to repairmen but most of the time you will pay more than the worth of projector, especially if you use shipping v.v.

--------------------
Winbert

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008


 - posted November 28, 2011 04:02 AM      Profile for Martin Jones     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Grant,
Let me tell you a true story...
When I first joined this Forum I was keen to pass on my acquired knowledge gleaned from 45 years as a TV repairman and somewhat more years as a cine hobbyist. I had considerable knowledge and expertise which I felt would be of value.
Through the Forum I came in touch with a Doctor (a man of extensive professional expertise in his field) who had a problem with the amplifier in his projector, of which I had a similar model.
Having first established that he had a multimeter (and could use it), a soldering iron (and could use it) and was prepared to follow "step by step" instructions meticulously, I offered to help him diagnose (hopefully!) and repair the fault... by Email.
Having suggested what solder he should use and ensuring that he had bought some, I proceeded to prepare VERY detailed step by step instructions, with photographs, of what wires to cut or rejoin, what measurements to take, what results he should get at each step. In the event of ANY particular step NOT producing the specified result he was to get back to me for a new set of instructions on how to proceed.
The fault was found very quickly through this logical approach based on years of diagnostic practice. I told him what spares to buy, and he purchased suitable locally obtainable alternatives (first asking for approval), and I furnished detailed instructions on how to fit them.
And his projector WORKED!
Then, after an hour or two of running all sorts of strange symptoms started to appear, symptoms that seemed to have no real obvious explanation. It soon became apparent that although he had a multimeter (and could use it), a soldering iron (and could use it), had purchased the correct solder and spare parts and had followed the "step by step" instructions meticulously, he had NEVER before used a soldering iron on Electronic circuits and had no idea how to make a good electrical soldered joint, let alone appreciating how delicate the printed wiring on early boards was. The result was CHAOS!
I offered to repair (at no charge) the damage to the board if he sent it to me, but I heard nothing further.
That was an object lesson to me... and it highlights the fact that a projector contains many delicate items, both electronic and mechanical, that are easily damaged. Some mechanical parts are no more robust than some parts of a clock mechanism, and some screws or nuts with no apparent function are for making critical adjustments to how the mechanism works (or doesn't, if they are wrongly set!).
That is why some pre-knowledge of mechanics and/or electrics are ESSENTIAL before diving into a projector.

What to do if the projector does not work properly and you do not have this knowledge? The answer is EXACTLY the same as when your car does not work properly and you do not have this knowledge.. you take it to someone who does!!
A projector deserves the same respect as car when it goes wrong.
Yes, there may not be many projector repairmen around and if you cannot find one, or the cost of repair is too high to be sensible, there is always the other course of action. There are LOTS of good working projectors still around; a good dealer will sell you a reliable one that has been properly serviced. Or you can still buy privately if you insist on seeing it work properly.

The fact still remains, if you have no basic knowledge, either learn "hands on" with someone who has the necessary expertise, or leave well alone.

Sorry to appear negative,; my advice IS actually intended to be positive.
Regards,
Martin

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted November 28, 2011 07:23 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know that feeling Martin.. If I had a bob for every time I get asked via a speedy email how to repair something, spend an hour trawling what’s left of my brain cells and composing mails with accompanying photographs then hear nothing I could retire and enjoy endless ice creams at Brighton. Joking apart if we have any doubt of our own capabilities it is better to seek out someone who has qualified knowledge of either electronics or mechanical issues as specialist repair centres for Cine Projectors with a hefty stock of new parts are no more, certainly in the UK anyway. Gone are the days when I could take a faulty machine to Leitz at Luton, have lunch and bring home a repaired machine the very same day. [Frown]

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Grant Fitzgerald
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Owatonna, MN
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted November 28, 2011 07:35 AM      Profile for Grant Fitzgerald   Author's Homepage   Email Grant Fitzgerald   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
HTanks Martin so much. I am feeling like I should probably send my projector to someone to fix. That or sell it and get a new one. I just hope I don't loose much money in the process because when I bought the projector it worked perfectly fine.

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted November 28, 2011 07:57 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Grant.
I just had a peep at your second Chinon problem video when the film bunches up. The reason for this is most likely to be the main film drive sprocket which pulls the film after the sound head. If the film has not engaged correctly onto the teeth of the drive sprocket teeth the film will have nothing to transport it through the mechanism other than the very small top drive sprocket and the claw at the gate.

THINGS TO CHECK.
1: With no film threaded just switch the projector on without lamp and bit by bit see if the larger lower film drive sprocket has tightening screws as it may be slipping on its drive shaft.

Without the projector running try turning the sprocket by hand just to see if it is loose.
If it turns by hand then it is either loose and if not tighten able at the front of the machine you may have to remove the back and tighten the drive gear at the other end of its drive shaft.

2: Try and thread a film again and stop the machine once the film reaches the take up reel. Have a very close look at that larger bottom film drive sprocket and make certain the films tiny sprocket holes are engaging onto the sprocket wheel holes perfectly. If not then the film will most certainly back up in front of the sound head.

3: Another possible is that the black film guide just under the large drive sprocket is not holding the film well enough.

Hope this helps and the fault is not just common to Chinon projectors either which will be a comfort.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 28, 2011 08:44 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Grant, having reviewing your two youtubes of Chinnon, this is only my guess:

1. First symptom (shaking picture) may be caused of dry film. You need to lube it. Solution: get a well lubed film as a comparison. The cheapest one is to get a home movie (Kodachrome or Ektachrome processed by Kodak) which always lubed by lab before it was sent back to the customer. GEt the 50' reel film which in ebay can only cost $2.

Alternatively if members in the US can throw him a free unused Kodachrome/Ektachrome home movie for Grant to try. I have a bunch here and will throw it to you if you pay shipping from Canada. Just let me know.

2. Bouncing thread may cause the leader has been damaged from previous show. A damage leader will tend to bounce. Solution: replace the leader or when you have the reel mentioned in no. 1 you can see if the same thing still happen.

ps: I am a trial and error person and do not have any extensive knowledge in electronic and mechanic as Martin's.

--------------------
Winbert

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Grant Fitzgerald
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Owatonna, MN
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted November 28, 2011 09:15 AM      Profile for Grant Fitzgerald   Author's Homepage   Email Grant Fitzgerald   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lee-I checked it out and it doesn't turn manually but it does rock back and forth a little when I try to turn it. So I looked in the back to see it I can tighten it. One it is in a really hard to reach spot and two I have no idea how to tighten it.

Winbert- IT would be cool if you could send me a reel. How much would shipping be?

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008


 - posted November 28, 2011 10:04 AM      Profile for Martin Jones     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Perhaps I should have said..."Take an 8oz hammer and hit everything you can see. Do it logically , in turn, but hit each item ONLY ONCE. If you are very lucky, your problems will disappear. But watch out for flying pigs!"
The above is said with tongue in cheek... but I hope the point will be taken!
I'm out on this one.
Martin

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 28, 2011 10:55 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Winbert- IT would be cool if you could send me a reel. How much would shipping be?
Grant,

you can check the cost of postage at www.canadapost.ca.

My postal code M2J 2H8. The weight of one 50' is roughly 80 grams and plus a padded envelope will make it to around 100 grams (0.1 kg).

Size of the envelope 10cm x 20cm x 1cm.

I don't know what is your ZIP code but I just randomly made 55060 for Owatonna, MN.

Click for NEXT and you can see the shipping cost will be (the most affordable one):

Small Packet™ - USA Air See Postal Guide for Delivery Standard $7.46

-OR-

Small Packet™ - USA Surface See Postal Guide for Delivery Standard $5.85

If you are OK with that email me at winbert (at) hotmail (dot) com

--------------------
Winbert

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Zechariah Sporre
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 557
From: Ladysmith, WI U.S.A.
Registered: Dec 2010


 - posted November 28, 2011 06:33 PM      Profile for Zechariah Sporre     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm probably not the person to listen to but I got into the 8mm hobby about 3 years ago. I've owned maybe 8-10 or so projectors during that time. I started with zero knowledge about projectors but since repairman are so unaccessable I deceided to try fixing them myself. At times it was frustrating and sometimes I'd spend hours just looking into the projector not really doing anything just trying to figure out how everything works. I have to say now though it is a rewarding experience learning how to fix and tweak things. Now if I had a really valuable or sentimental projector I probably wouldn't tackle alot of things and would be more leary about tearing it apart. Well I'm a far cry from really knowing how to repair projectors but I have had good luck fixing a couple.

--------------------
There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness

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