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Author Topic: Studios forcing end of 35mm?
Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: California
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 - posted May 11, 2012 12:21 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Haven't read LA Weekly for years (too liberal/racy/crass for me) but saw a link to this article and thought it was a good read:

Movie Studios Are Forcing Hollywood to Abandon 35mm Film

This article is peppered throughout with technical inaccuracies, and some of the source information is called into question in the comments section. Still, while this isn't a new subject to us, some of the information of this article seems unique. Is it to be trusted?

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

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From: Essex, UK
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 - posted May 11, 2012 01:01 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Bill,
I haven't even read the article in your link but in answer to the question posed by your thread title - Yes, of course they are. There's no doubt about it, surely.

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Akshay Nanjangud
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From: Dallas, TX
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 - posted May 11, 2012 01:54 PM      Profile for Akshay Nanjangud   Email Akshay Nanjangud   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, it costs $1500 to print a feature on 35mm. Would it be somewhere close to that to print on Super 8, or even 16mm?

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

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From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
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 - posted May 11, 2012 02:52 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Thats one helluva article Bill,and as Michael said,thats the way it's
going regarding film.If Hollywood were run by people like ourselves
that have a genuine love of the "slippery stuff,"then there would'nt be a problem,but as the late Michael Carreras of Hammer
Films fame said,"they only know how to make deals,not films"
and the bottom line is profit.Well for what it's worth,and I'm not
a great lover of modern film makers,if my local intends to show
digital then they can watch 'em themselves,I refuse to pay to
view something I can view at home,more conveniently on my
own DVD.The bottom line is CORPORATE GREED and that can
only be fed if you're willing to go along with them,and I for one
will boycott them,The greed of these people know no bounds
and the article shows how they really feel about the medium.....
they could'nt care less.

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

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From: New Zealand
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 - posted May 11, 2012 03:30 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Intereting article, Digital is here to stay and it will push 35mm cinema presentation out the window. For small cinema operators they will have to decide if they can afford it, or is it even worth it in the long term to make that kind of change.

One thing I liked about that article was "Hug a Projectionist" from someone in Switzerland I think thats a good idea. I tried that with the staff I worked with. I used to come downstairs and with open arms "shout", group hug...group hug [Eek!] they used to run a mile [Big Grin] scary stuff eh! [Big Grin]

Graham.

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John Hourigan
Master Film Handler

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From: Colorado U.S.A.
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 - posted May 12, 2012 02:54 PM      Profile for John Hourigan   Email John Hourigan       Edit/Delete Post 
Have to agree with Graham on this one. Even though I love film, businesses will do what makes economic sense, and studios are seeing too much cost involved in printing and distributing film prints.

However, with the move to digital projection in cinemas, why in the heck should I shell out $10-$20 a ticket when I can watch digital at home on my HDTV (and see the same film[s] on pay per view a few weeks/months later for $4)? I know some will say that "it's not the same as watching movies in a darkened theatre," but with the inevitable move to digital anyway, what's the benefit of going to the cinema given it's the same technology that's available at home?) However, I'll continue to watch real film in my basement cinema.

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Wayne Tuell
Master Film Handler

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From: Minden, NV
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 - posted May 12, 2012 03:50 PM      Profile for Wayne Tuell   Author's Homepage   Email Wayne Tuell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
So, it costs $1500 to print a feature on 35mm. Would it be somewhere close to that to print on Super 8, or even 16mm?
In short, yes. Studios get much better rates because when they print, they print A LOT. Even though there is is a lot less footage length in S8mm or 16mm, the costs are higher per foot than what the studios pay (soon to be paid) for 35mm.

--------------------
www.16mmDrive-InFilms.com

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Graham Ritchie
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 - posted May 13, 2012 03:55 AM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John
I think a lot of people are thinking the same, it cost around $16 for an adult ticket about $11 a child, for a family the hole thing gets expensive. I used to cringe when I was downstairs at what folk were paying. I once asked a lady who was with her young family, did she go to the movies often, she replied, no it was to expensive and added with a smile. Its a pity we have to mortgage the house to go to the movies. Although she was only kidding about the house, she was getting the point across all the same. Times have changed for home entertainment, we can enjoy good digital sound etc, even 3D at home. The cinema industry is living in the past and the expensive switch to digital presentation wont help, as most folk think its a video projector anyway so its not a selling point. I still like going to the movies every so often but not a regular thats for sure.

Graham.

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Oscar Iniesta
Master Film Handler

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 - posted May 13, 2012 04:41 AM      Profile for Oscar Iniesta   Email Oscar Iniesta   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A famous spanish cine fan and professional, write about this time ago, and he told us a date (2017, I remember?), due to the plans decided by Buenavista. But I see that things are going faster probably forced by the finantial problems worldwide. I have read the same views about why paying expensive prices for a technology we can have at home (big LED screen or projection one, with Blue Ray and multichannel sound). In my opinion, they don´t have anything new or different to offer. I believe IMAX and monthly superproductions, as the ones released on the 50/60´s where the way to follow, but they insist on that psychotropic 3D experience.
Last weeks, a new 35mm print of The Goonies were projected near home. An spanish fan bought explotation rights and ordered the prints. He believes in 35mm classics and cine lovers answer as an alternative way to the recent Hollywwod trash.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
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From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
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 - posted May 13, 2012 06:41 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
I think you're absolutely right Oscar,and the way things are going
if they drop the 3D idea, Hollywood has nothing to offer.I do
believe we're witnessing the end of cinema as we know it,because
people,myself included,aren't going to pay exorbitant prices to view something that they can view in their own homes for a
fraction of the price.I would think that the only ones who are
going to be watching "proper film",will be the private owner or
collectors like ourselves.It's a bit like history repeating itself,
colour television dealt a body blow to the cinema,so they gave
us cinemascope and 3D,now it seems they are resurrecting 3D
but the novelty is wearing off and the accessability of home
projection and huge TVs coupled with unlimited access to
streaming TV channels & DVD, what has the cinema got to offer? it seems the experience of watching a film in other folks
company will be a thing of the past.

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Adrian Winchester
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 - posted May 13, 2012 07:30 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester   Email Adrian Winchester   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Much as I love film and don't want it to be forced out, I disagree that admissions in digital screens will be damaged by significant numbers of people taking the view that they won't go to the cinema because they can have a similar experience at home. A lot of film collectors have digital projection because they are the most receptive group and are already used to home projection. But in my social circle, I can't think of a single person who is not a film collector who has bought a digital projector. I bet many of us here would say the same thing - it hasn't 'crossed over' into the general public in a big way. What might be more problematic for distributors could be if they cease distribution of 35mm in countries where maybe 10% or more of screens are still 35mm and in cinemas where the owners cannot afford to change. That would be a LOT of lost revenue. I wonder if some smaller screens might try to survive by installing high quality domestic-type projectors, but I don't know if distributors would supply to them if they did.

[ May 14, 2012, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

--------------------
Adrian Winchester

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Graham Ritchie
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From: New Zealand
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 - posted May 13, 2012 11:33 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As for the future of cinema digital projection... as Scotty from "Star Trek" once said "The more they overtech the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the drain". [Big Grin] food for thought [Wink]

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Bill Brandenstein
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From: California
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 - posted May 15, 2012 12:23 AM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Of all the people I know around here who've moved up to HD, I can only think of one who did it via a projector. So I agree with Adrian's observation. But when you have Lucas giving millions of $$$ to the USC film school under the stipulation that students will never shoot on film, and the distributers giving financial incentive to exhibitors for removing their film projectors permanently and showing digital prints alone, the aesthetics, artistry, and public interest aren't even on the radar.

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Allan Broadfield
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 - posted May 15, 2012 02:05 AM      Profile for Allan Broadfield   Author's Homepage   Email Allan Broadfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As an ex projectionist and more lately film technician who has been made redundant due to drastic results of decline in 35mm releasing, the march of digital, at least in the UK, is inevitable. Major labs have been forced to close down, and it is no exaggeration to say that there are many printing machines now languishing in breaking yards.
If I want to sound realistic I would say that 35mm has had a damn good run, it has, after all, been in use since the late 1890's, and I remember when I joined the business in 1959 I was advised that it didn't have much longer to go!

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Graham Ritchie
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 - posted May 15, 2012 03:44 AM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pat sent me this photo of the demolition of Hoyts 8 cinema here in the city. The building like so many were damaged due to earthquakes since 2010. The reason for the photo, the "Kinoton" projectors and platters "still in place" were being destroyed along with everything else. Although some of the equipment was damaged from past shakes a lot of it was still fine. It seems such a waste. Hoyts themselves would not sell any of it, but would rather scrap it rather than anyone else getting a use out of it. Although these days 35mm might not be worth much, I think we are going to see more good film projectors heading to the scrap dealer, what a waste.
 -

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Bryan Chernick
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 - posted May 15, 2012 12:38 PM      Profile for Bryan Chernick   Email Bryan Chernick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
An interesting prediction in this article "15 Current Technologies A Child Born Today Will Never Use".

quote:
Movie Theaters

Pundits have been predicting the death of the movie theater since the first televisions hit the market, but this time, it's really going to happen for a number of reasons. First, with large HD televisions going mainstream and 3D sets becoming more affordable, the average home theater is almost as good as the average multiplex theater. Second, studios and their cable partners have begun releasing some movies for on-demand viewing on the same day they debut in theaters, a trend which is likely to continue.

Finally, the cost of going to a movie theater is so out of control — movie tickets in New York cost around $13 each — that nobody is going to keep paying it. In a world where an on-demand film that's still in theaters costs $7 to rent and one that just left the theater streams for $2.99 from Amazon, who will spend more than $50 for a family of four to go see the same movie surrounded by annoying patrons, dirty seats and overpriced popcorn? Art house theaters that offer specialized films and a sense of community may remain, but the average multiplex will be gone before my son notices it was ever there.

So the only theaters that will survive are the ones that use film. [Big Grin]

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Hugh Thompson Scott
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From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
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 - posted May 15, 2012 01:09 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Exactly Bryan,these are the days of "belt tightening" what with
recessions,I prefer depression,but lets not frighten the horses.
I think that the visits to cinemas will be somewhat rarer,and when
one sees what is being charged to view a film,i'm afraid the end
is nigh.Lets be quite honest about this,the standard of film
making nowadays does leave a lot to be desired,what with the
ubiquitous "shaky cam" and mumbled dialogue from actors
and actresses that have little or no idea of diction,who is going
to pay top dollar to sit through what passes for threadbare
stotylines and overblown effects.This is all now going to come
to a head and the local "flea pit" will go the way of the Music
Hall.Hollywood has spoonfed the public this drivel and charged
a fortune for it,so Television will undoubtedly win, and the
public will be charged privately to watch the drivel in their own homes

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Steve Klare
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 - posted May 15, 2012 01:35 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What's astonding to me is the way "The Movies" is becoming ever more like just a big TV set for a large audience. Back 20 years ago it would have been outragious to see a commercial in a movie theater, but I see that all the time now. Then I go home and flip on on the 'tube and there that same commercial is.

What's interesting is digital cinema will be able to show live events like sports and concerts, so someday soon "going to the cinema" won't absolutely be the same thing as "going to a movie".

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Bryan Chernick
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 - posted May 15, 2012 02:09 PM      Profile for Bryan Chernick   Email Bryan Chernick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
What's interesting is digital cinema will be able to show live events like sports and concerts, so someday soon "going to the cinema" won't absolutely be the same thing as "going to a movie".
They will need a gimmick to get people to come in. The only theater that I go to anymore is Cinebarre. They took out every other row of seats and installed tables. You can order food and drinks from your seat while you watch the movie.

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Oscar Iniesta
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 - posted May 15, 2012 04:40 PM      Profile for Oscar Iniesta   Email Oscar Iniesta   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bryan has said what I tried to do. I know digital projectors are not so common at many homes, but large HD TV screem has been a revolution the last years. Don´t know why, but all the people, young and old, are crazy about thin TVs here in Spain. So, for our small flats and living rooms, that it a BIG screen, and DVD/Blue Rays an easy way to enjoy a movie. Now think on the other option; driving to a Mall (local cinemas closed), paying a high price for a ticket, no employers inside to keep or look for your seat, nobody taking care of projection quality or annoying non polite viewers with their f***ing mobile phones, and, of course, a poor script from 21th century Hollywood.

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Winbert Hutahaean
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 - posted May 16, 2012 07:09 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
IF SONY MAKES DIGITAL VIDEO CAMERAS (both domestic and industry)

IF SONY MAKES DIGITAL PROJECTORS (both domestic and industry)

IF SONY IS ONE OF THE BIG 6 STUDIOS

what do you expect.....?

Sony will ask cinemas to turnt into digital or will not films supply from the studio.

This is what anti-trust law should look at and scrutinize.

--------------------
Winbert

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Bill Brandenstein
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 - posted May 16, 2012 10:29 AM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert, that seems like a GREAT point. Particularly with the amount of control being wielded.

Bryan, I'd like to say I agree with you that if all cinemas die except for the art houses, then 35mm will be all that's left. But the article I originally linked to describes the pressure distributors are placing on exhibitors to screen even classic repertory digitally. Seeing what goes on around town here, I can't deny that trend is happening. So ultimately it's up to whatever the film libraries are willing to support.

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Bryan Chernick
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From: Bothell, WA, USA
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 - posted May 16, 2012 02:40 PM      Profile for Bryan Chernick   Email Bryan Chernick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So what happens to all those 35mm prints that were distributed to theaters in the past? They must have mountains of them somewhere or were they destroyed?

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

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From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
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 - posted May 16, 2012 03:54 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm afraid Bryan that's exactly what happens to them,sometimes
they are used by the film industry as leaders etc.Usually an axe
or pick axe is used to destroy them then they are buried.It was
common practice for someone from the industry to be present
while they're destroyed.One of the reasons why I applaude anyone
that can salvage a print or two,lets face it there's a lot of stuff out there on 8mm that wouldn't be there if someone hadn't been
naughty.........thank God.

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Bill Brandenstein
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From: California
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 - posted May 16, 2012 09:43 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, Bryan, I think that would depend on the country a bit, because here in the US there is a recycling facility (or WAS!) that melts down the polyester and recovers whatever silver is there. The majority of theatrical prints meet their demise in that way, so I've heard. Then a few prints (traditionally) are kept in library storage for "repertory" rentals, unless there's a legal reason not to (e.g. George Lucas preventing it). So now these huge repositories of 35mm repertoire are also slowing down in favor of shipping a hard drive.

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