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Author Topic: WHAT IS THE BEST PROJECTOR?
Laksmi Breathwaite
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 771
From: Las Vegas
Registered: Nov 2010


 - posted June 16, 2012 11:57 AM      Profile for Laksmi Breathwaite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have heard so much about best projectors EUMIG,Elmo,Sankyo, Bell Howell,Sears, etc. But what is the best for practical use scratch free,break down, easy to load,lamp life,little noise,and just practical. I have been in the hobby for 40 years and have learn to love my ELMO Hi Vi sion SC-18 2- track. It is kind to my films, it has a low maintance,it has very low noise, it has the side TV viewing, it has great sound, it has a nice zoom lens for showing in theatres, and out side on the beach with a sheet. What are all your thoughts in this forum?

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted June 16, 2012 12:24 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Egad!

You open up a great can of fun "worms" which this re-accuring topic, but a fun one no less.

My top three picks are ...

1. EUMIG
2. ELMO
3. CHINON

Why?

ELMO is not first as, while in many ways, they are the best performers, they also have far more problems that pop up, (from everything that I have read on this and other forums), where the EUMIG is just a great "work horse" of a projector, with all the bells and whistles as well. To this day, I have never had a problem with my EUMIG 926 stereo.

CHINON's, depending on the model, are exceptional performers as well, especially the CHINON 9500 Magnetic/optical sound line, of which I have two, and this is why I have them as a third choice as best.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted June 16, 2012 12:42 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wish I hadn't sold my Sankyo Stereo 800 - a real beauty to look at as well as a solid performer.

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

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From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010


 - posted June 16, 2012 12:47 PM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
1.Elmo
2.Eumig
3.Sankyo

Just cause I say so [Big Grin]

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted June 16, 2012 12:47 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Laksmi, although I have (and have had) Elmos and Eumigs of all sorts, I'd say that the SC18 has been the most reliable machine I've ever owned. It sits permanently on its very own shelf in my workshop, always ready for print checking.

(Now, which beach in Vegas are we talking about ? [Wink] )

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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John Davis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 286
From: Dunfermline, Fife, UK
Registered: Jun 2008


 - posted June 16, 2012 02:01 PM      Profile for John Davis   Email John Davis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Isn't projecting at or near a beach going to invite scratches from sand finding it's way into the machine?

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Laksmi Breathwaite
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 771
From: Las Vegas
Registered: Nov 2010


 - posted June 16, 2012 02:40 PM      Profile for Laksmi Breathwaite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi how long have you had your work horse EUMIG 926 stereo?
What about the scratchings and how's it treats film? My Elmo I have had for almost 30 years is gentle as a babies bottom.
Pasquale DAlessio wow you are the man to my heart! I love my ELMO SC-18 my list is your list.
Jean-Marc Toussaint any Beach,desert,
forest,parks,and camping sight etc has a place with tables and benches with a roof. And poles you can run the white bed sheet between for a nice big screen . But if you don't have that bring a long extension cord find a beach power source or generator. Also you can bring a nice size portable screen.Then John Davis take a folding table to put the projector on then project away Star Wars or a Superman Cartoon at night. Pop up some popcorn on an open fire and marshmallows. Everybody lays out or sits on the sand or grass. Just don't do it on a windy day. Next I have the kids sitting in my camper pluged in to my 12 volt DC converter watching Disney cartoons on my ELMO SC18 editing tv screen.

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted June 16, 2012 03:21 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
For the serious showman/collector, it must be FUMEO,I know
they weren't popular in the USA because of the very high cost,
but the difference of light output and amplification even puts
the flagship GS1200 in the shade.It's the dream machine,no
plastic tracks,manual thread,a powerful motor and a 2500'
spool capacity and 200W lamp.This projector was made to last,and I believe it will.
It also has a huge flywheel for sound stability,no wow there,and
absolutely brilliant on Optical sound,useful on low recorded tracks and an additional presence filter.The Fumeo's could be built to order.The pinnacle of their
projectors was the FUMEO 9154 that had a 500w xenon lamp
and stereo & pulse sync,held 6000'feet of film and can deliver
50w across 8ohmalso could do 5 channel and sub woofer.plus the fact it can fill screens 10-12 meters wide!
The best has to be paid for,and there's no doubt that
FUMEO projectors are,solid,dependable and above all .....kind
to film,something ELMO's never were.Oh the price of this
particular model,a cool £6,500.00 and that was in 1991,but for
those that can't bear to part with that kind of dough,the 9119
takes some beating,and is a bit more affordable.

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Laksmi Breathwaite
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 771
From: Las Vegas
Registered: Nov 2010


 - posted June 16, 2012 03:44 PM      Profile for Laksmi Breathwaite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Okay Hugh FUMEO projector is the God of projectors what a price tag I guess you get what you pay for . I'm just thinking of us mortals.But is it practical ? I'm thinking price and affordability. I would never take that beast out side my door. I would be to scared. You just made my Elmo cry it has been very nice to my films . Especially if you use FILMGUARD and keep the lubricant going.

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted June 16, 2012 04:39 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For super 8 I like the Elmo ST1200HD. It has been a solid performer for me with no real problems. I also have a GAF 3100S (re-named Chinon) that I use for transfers that works very well. I keep the films lubed and the film paths clean so far so good! I would like to get one of those Elmos like you have with the built-in screen for my editing bench.

For standard 8 I would say Bolex M8. It's a beauty! I just recently got one and I'm in love with it!

Bill [Smile]

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted June 16, 2012 04:40 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
I hope Laksmi that you have made little modifications to your
projector,because the guides do wear with use on ELMO's and
I thoroughly agree they are a very good projector,the tracking lets
them down,there's nothing worse than running an expensive
print and finding emulsion scratches.It was this that turned me away from ELMO as I couldn't keep up with replacing damaged
film.In SUPER 8 REVIEW run by Keith Wilton and SUPER 8
COLLECTOR run by the late Paul van Someren,it told and showed where to put extra rollers to alleviate scratching,the
unforgivable sin of any projector.It shouldn't really have been too difficult to have made a manual thread ELMO ST1200 as
it was really a scaled down 16mm design.Anyway we can still dream.

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted June 16, 2012 04:44 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hugh...I wish they were manual thread...I like that much better.

Bill [Smile]

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 16, 2012 04:51 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've mostly had Eumig 800 series and Elmo ST's.

Both excellent, but I like the ease of access to the film path with the Elmos. On the Eumig 800s the fact that you are one false step away from knocking off a claw pin when you clean the gate if you forget to align that inching knob is kinda scary.

That much said: my first sound machines was a Eumig 10 years ago and I still don't know what it looks like inside because it's never once died on me!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 16, 2012 06:41 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My favourite projector is my Eumig 938 Stereo. Extremely kind to film, never scratches, flawless auto threading, ultra steady projection, and awesome sound. No reliability issues in 10 years.

I also like my Elmo GS1200. It has larger 1200ft spool capacity, higher light output than my Eumig 938, and it will play optical sound tracks. But, it will sometimes scratch film for no apparent reason, and projection is not as steady as the Eumig 938 and sound quality is not as good with a propensity for WOW on some films. Plus, like a lot of GS1200'S, it has had reliability problems with microswitches and stereo amp modules.

Bottom line. For great worry-free projection the Eumig 938 wins every time, it just trucks along with no complaining.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted June 16, 2012 07:21 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you are putting on film programme away from home I found my early Elmo ST1200M years ago did the job really well. The thing is, is that you can make up an interesting and varied programme that suits everyone onto a 1200ft or 800ft reel meaning non-stop.

Most folk in particular kids will get restless if you have to stop and rewind etc using a projector that can only take 400-600ft of film. The other thing is light output and again the 150watt lamp gives you plenty of light, getting a 1.1 lens at a later stage will increase that by 25%. If you dont need stereo or optical those early ST1200 projectors are very reliable, light to carry and most importantly, easy to get at and clean the film path. They had just one belt/one motor to drive everything. I still have mine I bought second hand back in 1979 and will never part with it. [Smile]

If you can find one thats been looked after and at the right price it would be a good buy and for all practical purposes would be just the thing.
 -
Graham. [Smile]

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Zechariah Sporre
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 557
From: Ladysmith, WI U.S.A.
Registered: Dec 2010


 - posted June 16, 2012 08:29 PM      Profile for Zechariah Sporre     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well I know I haven't been using projectors near as long as most people but I've had several eumig 800 series and have been tickled pink with them. They've always been very reliable and user friendly. I also love the option of running both super 8 and Reg 8mm on the same machine. My favorite is the 810D lux High Quality Sound and I love the lens and sound on this one.

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There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness

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Laksmi Breathwaite
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 771
From: Las Vegas
Registered: Nov 2010


 - posted June 16, 2012 08:53 PM      Profile for Laksmi Breathwaite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Hugh unforgivable sin of any projector is that it scratches the film sooner or later even with all precautions. In the theatres unless it is shown digitally and that is not film. The secret is don't show the film and lub it well. And modifications to your
projector with the guides do wear with use on ELMO's the tracking cuts the film after time and extra rollers to alleviate scratching is good . But sooner or later if you view your films allot you will see scratches. The film passes through the metal gated to hold it down to project the image. Unless you have soft rubber as a tracking gate? Some film that is made well with strong emulsions on the stock can have a less time being damaged . But sooner or later it wuill scratch your film yout unforgivable friend projector you love. But what do you do? You must watch your films if you need a fix like me. A long time ago I used to get films from RED FOX films on the east coast. They sold a furnisher polish that had lemon in it. Any body remember that ? It was the wonder stuff that took away and filled deep scratches on film. I could not believe this stuff and used it all the time. It actually worked and all my scratches were gone. I would just use it on a soft cloth and rewind my film holding it folded across the damaged film and presto change oh it worked. I could only get it from Fox and when they shut down there went my supply of the stuff. Now I use the GUARD and just live with the scratch and keep lubing the films I watch allot. Some films I watch the most have no scratch marks must be made of allot of silver? Film was made with real silver at one time. Anyway the other night I was showing a new film that I got on eBay from England for some Kungfu kids. It was ENTER THE DRAGON 400" . I checked it out it was clean of scratches I was shocked . When I rewinded the the film I got distracted by these kids doing Kungfu kicks. Half the film unwinded in the middle on the floor. I finally got it back on the take up reel and rewinded the rest. I showed it again after it rewinded and it had a blue scratch on the side . It was in about the middle of the film and after no damage on the part that had not been on the rug. I was pissed !unforgivable sin of any projector is that it scratches the film sooner or later even with all precautions. Daaaaa

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted June 17, 2012 08:41 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have had my EUMIG 926 stereo sicne I got back into collecting, nearly 10 years, (and remmber, I got it used in the first place), and, like Paul's 938 stereo (Which I envy Paul for, would LOVE to have one!), my 926 has never scratched a film. Very high quality sound, though I must confess that the balance stripe portion of the stereo is starting to wear a little, so when I play my stereo prints, I use the CHINON 9500's.

I have always been interested in those FUMEO's, but I have never had the pleasure of owning one or even operating one.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Roger Shunk
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Registered: Nov 2011


 - posted June 17, 2012 10:12 AM      Profile for Roger Shunk   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think I will have to agree with Pat on this one Elmo Rules!!

RS [Big Grin]

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted June 17, 2012 02:46 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi,you owe it to yourself to get a FUMEO, they are reliable and
straight forward,with little to go wrong,which is one reason we
don't see a lot of Fumeo owners with problems on this forum,
it's taken over by the GS MEN.Lets be quite honest about it, the
Japanese never made anything with a view to longevity,and the
remaining machines are coming to the end of their lives.The
Italians always had an eye for style,and if their Colosseum is
anything to go by,the last word in making things that last.

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

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From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted June 17, 2012 06:21 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can't really name a 8mm projector in this thread, because although I've owned quite a few, I've never owned one that has been sufficiently problem-free for me to choose it here.

However, it's interesting to see how people can have very different experiences with the same projectors. The SC18 has received enthusiastic praise for it's reliability here, but I had worse than average problems with one I bought new. I later sold it to a friend of mine and some time later it became a rare instance of a projector breakdown that even a top Elmo expert considered beyond help!

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Adrian Winchester

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Laksmi Breathwaite
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 771
From: Las Vegas
Registered: Nov 2010


 - posted June 17, 2012 11:56 PM      Profile for Laksmi Breathwaite     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Okay Adrian the ELMO SC-18 you got a lemon just like new cars which is problem free a Honda? FUMEO is the God of projectors and with that kind of price tag it better be. Anyway what do you pick as the saint for you? I'm stating the budget wise and practicality's issue. I love the fact SC-18 I can edit watch and zoom in a theatre as well as it is light weight to go camping in the great out doors with. I have had problems with all my projectors, Eumig,Sankyo,Bell & Howell, Gaf,Sears,and Chinon. Cars wear out if you use them. But some more or less then others there not all indestructible. When I was a kid I got to help out in the projection room at my neighborhood theatre the projectors were allways brecking down. Parts had to be changed and everything was lubed all the time. Now and again a whole projector was replace and it started all over again. I used to ask if I could keep some of the films that were badly scartched but the guy I worked with said no it goes back to be burned melted or something . And made into a new print.Oh No give it to me even knowing I had only my tiny projector at home. I thought I would keep it till I could get a big projector some day that was thrown out . If you use it you loose it. FUMEO except. You get what you pay for I guess?

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Alan Rik
Film God

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From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 18, 2012 01:40 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have owned the Elmo GS1200,Elmo ST1200, Fumeo 9119, Eumig S940, S926, Chinon 9500, Chinon 4100, Bauer T610, and the Beaulieu 708 Stereo.
The Elmo is the only one I have left.
I liked the Eumig for its sound quality but the picture wasn't really bright enough. I was using it during a screening and then the bulb burned out. I put it on the Elmo GS and one of the people watching it said the picture was much brighter and better. The Eumig had the 1.1 Schneider lens on it too. I never liked the way the 926 had the take up reel on the same side as the feeding reel. It seems to put unnecessary pressure on the film.
I had the Chinon 4100 as new and it chewed up my new print of Enter the Dragon 400. As well as many others. And then I got the Optical/Magnetic 9500. And it did the same!
The Beaulieu was a little finicky when it came to reproducing the sound on some tracks but the picture was really first rate. And the threading was flawless with very little clacking and noise. The brightness due to the 2 bladed shutter and the fast pull down made it as bright as the GS1200 with the 200 watt lamp. That was a great machine too.
The Bauer t610 was a great machine until the claw needed replacing and no one on this side of the pond could do it. Great picture, great sound, and the quietest machine you never heard. Soon I'll get another one.
I do believe the Fumeo 9145 is most likely the best Super 8 machine ever made. However the only thing I liked about the Fumeo 9119 was the manual threading. That was a dream and I wish all the other machines could be threaded like that one. The picture quality with the 1.1 Schneider I had on there was good. It wasn't better than the GS. Comparable. The sound was tinny compared to the GS1200. And the GS has sync pulse for re-recording tracks. And when it comes to the ergonomics of the Fumeo...its really a clunky machine. A workhorse yes but I never bonded with mine.
For me the GS1200 is the best machine I have used (Even better in the Xenon flavor) and the one that I have always gone back to. I had the ST1200HD M/O for a month but I missed my old GS so I was lucky to find one on Ebay.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted June 18, 2012 02:53 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Has anyone got any photos of those Fumeo machines - in particular the 9154?

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted June 18, 2012 04:34 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Pictures of this super machine appeared in FFTC # 18 and a
very detailed article Michael.Indeed this projector uses the same
body carcass as the 35mm version.As for Alan saying he had
"tinny" sound with a 9119I beg to differ,the projector has ample bass,treble
and a presence filter to alter sound repro according to the room
The light out put is much brighter than the GS1200.I have one
of the GS machines and do not use it as much as against the
9119,which I know will not put a mark on my films.Unlike the
Elmo family that I believe even had a certain mark on film named after them! No the reason it wasn't popular in the US
is quite simply it was too expensive,and wasn't a portable
recording studio,which the average collector didn't want or require..If the Japanese had paid more attention to film care
and had manual thread at the cost of all the micro switches etc
then a better projector would have resulted,but take away all
the whistles and bells and you have a projector that isn't that
good.A lot of collectors inproved the light out put by shutter
replacement and more powerful lamps,indeed coupled with all the addtional rollers,for a top flight projector it certainly needed a lot of work to bring it up to speed,The majotity of problems with collectors on this forum are GS and that says it all for me.
For reliability and film care then Fumeo can't be beat,and don't
require altering in any way, shape or form.Viva Italia!

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