8mm Forum: GS1200 question

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Topic: GS1200 question

Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted June 22, 2012 02:01 PM

This is something which I've always been meaning to ask someone but never got around to - why did Elmo go with the "piano-key" controls rather than with the traditional dial control?
Is there, or was there at the time perceived to be, an advantage?

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted June 22, 2012 02:12 PM

The reason is that the GS is electronically controlled, so the "keys" activate a circuit; they do not physically engage a set of mechanical linkages.
The ST is mechanical, so the turning of the handle literally engages the mechanism to start the machine.

Claus.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Steven Sigel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 701
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 22, 2012 02:12 PM

I think it was considered "top of the line"... There was a pushbutton version of the 16mm projectors as well available for a premium of course...

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted June 22, 2012 02:14 PM

Has this design proved advantageous? Or just more complicated.

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted June 22, 2012 02:27 PM

As someone who owns both machines:

The ST, while not quite as "sexy" as the GS, is the steady worker; the GS has been the pricey primadonna.

When the GS flies, it is beautiful; when it dies, it just...dies.
Aging 1980es cutting-edge circuit-board technology is expensive to fix these days...the machine has 4 motors and all kinds of wonderful options, but in my case, reliability has not been its strong suit.

Claus.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted June 22, 2012 02:51 PM

I've heard some people on here say that the keys have been problematic as the years have gone by, or at least, the circuits controlled by the keys. I guess what I'm asking is would it have been any better if a dial had been used? Could a dial not have been used to activate the circuits?
Or would it have made any difference at all?

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted June 22, 2012 03:22 PM

I don't think it would have made any difference.

What happens after the circuits are engaged is where the "bugs" are showing up, regardless of how you engage the circuits.
The motor control, the cooling, audio....the GS is packed to the gills with boards and weighs almost as much as my 16mm Elmo 3500 Xenon...ridiculous, when you think about it.
Cold solders, bad wiring, logic issues...the thing can be a rat's nest of issues.

The last thing it did was the most inexcusable: it stopped cold, mid-screening, with the lamp still on and the gate open. Instant death of a couple of frames. When I tried to start it again, it stopped again, this time with a hideous electronic burning smell.

It's like a demanding expensive mistress. You know you should walk away, but when it's good, it's really good and you forget the cost... [Big Grin]

Claus.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Desmond Godwin
Film Handler

Posts: 75
From: Ireland
Registered: Apr 2011

posted June 22, 2012 04:09 PM

Howdy Michael. I would have to say the 'piano key' switch design on the GS is the better option. Im sure elmo could have designed a rotary dial but it would have entailed a lot of switching contacts and a tedious wiring path to get where they wanted. The switching operations of the projector are controlled
in total by electro-mechanical relays and solenoids,activated by the piano keys. Now which would you prefer a Big 'Clunky' rotary dial or a soft 'sexy' piano key operation.Have you ever operated a Chinon 7500 with its Big 'Clunky' dial. The innards of plastic rotary dials tend to wear out with a lotta use,and the GS was intended for hard work so they went for a much sleeker and i think better 'modus operandum' Yes faults and problems are bound to surface but its really not that complex a machine to rectify faults. I would sooner be replacing a faulty relay or diodes on its control circuits than to have to dismantle a complex mechanical rotary knob that by its time would now be well worn and obsolete where as you can still get a relay. So yes Elmo could have designed a rotary knob but they were looking into their crystal ball..
[Smile]

Desmond

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005

posted June 22, 2012 05:12 PM

The key type switches were also designed for helping with lining up the frames of film for accurate recordings,Mark.

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Elmo GS1200 1.0 lens
Elmo ST1200HD 1.1 lens
Sankyo 800 1.0 lens
Elmo 16CL
Elf NT1

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 23, 2012 02:48 AM

When these machines are right they give years of flawless operation. The problem many people have is they have purchased old machines which have had many previous owners and you never know what you are going to get in those circumstances. One of mine was a one previous owner machine but it turned out to be completely knackered. Bill Parsons rebuilt it for me about 8 years ago and it's run beautifully ever since.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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