Author
|
Topic: Why dont Eumig's scratch?
|
|
|
Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God
Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012
|
posted October 20, 2012 02:04 PM
Hello Andrew,I have had my share of damaged prints through Elmo's.I would go so far as to say I have a pathological hatred of those shoddy plastic guides.John is right about the Eumigs as they produced each later model, I have one of the 932s and the difference between the 700 series and this is like night and day,plastic mouldings and casing, not good.Back to Elmo's, the ST1200 is a great projector, good design,great playback and a dream to use if recording it's just that they "spoilt the ship for a ha'porth of tar" and I can never forgive them.Points to watch are the upper sprocket guide, that should have relieved rollers the feed shoe that does wear and requires a roller, the head presser that also supports the loop below the gate will wear and need either polished or replaced ( i actually fitted a roller on this after cutting away the plastic) the guide for the soundheads eventually wears and the film actuall cuts into it, the lower sprocket guide is also a point for additional rollers I have also removed the less than useless spring guide that pushes back for large spools.but can cause havoc if it springs while your back is turned Elmo's I have had ST 1200s; one brand new,one obtained from a chap who got one and hardly used it and one from the actor Brian Murphy via Perry's and they all scratched eventually.I was sick of buying replacement guides from Hanimex, so I modernised them myself and fitted extra rollers which eliminated any fear of marks,also with the GS1200. Don't get me wrong Andrew,Elmo's are a great machine,just be on your guard with those guides.As for Eumigs not scratching, they are to be checked around the picture gate area,as the copper plate on some models will wear and scratch.The film path on the 700's was well thought out and is easily kept clean with a thin piece of wood with lens tissue wrapped around dipped in Meths.The early Eumigs and Elmo ST1200's have a very important common denominator, and that is it is simple to remove a film partway, and if need be, replace it.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
|
posted October 20, 2012 02:37 PM
Hugh is right about the build quality of the early Eumigs. The 700 and 800 series were built like tanks, with the main chassis and cover structures made from aluminum pressure die castings. On the 900 series, the main chassis is still an aluminum casting, but Eumig went to injection molded plastic front and back covers to a) reduce weight and b) absorb noise and dampen vibration. Anyone who has lifted a GS1200 will be grateful for Eumigs weight reduction efforts. The front and back covers on the GS weigh a ton, and 5lbs could easily be shaved off by using plastics, but I doubt that many GS owner would have preferred Elmo to use plastics. But, probably what Hugh is alluding to is the greatly increased use of plastic moldings for film path and other parts on the later Eumig series. On the 926, some of the features associated with the film guide parts , rewind roller arm, and main control knob, are ridiculously fragile and could never have been put through any stress analysis- were Eumig trying to save a few bucks on injection molding material, or what?
-------------------- The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection, Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012
|
posted October 27, 2012 05:31 PM
My first projector was a 'Electricity Light Machine Organization' Elmo Sound ST-1200 Magnetic & Optical. I remember this sometimes did scratch film, if memory serves me it was a green scratch down the right hand side. But for some reason not all films were scratched.
Some films seemed to have very rough slitting, if you held your fingers on the edges it felt rough. One company in the UK made a machine called something like 'equaliser' (made by the same company that made 'Cut-A-Rut'). it was made for standard 8, I think because sometimes the slitting was not smooth. Of course this could be used for super 8 too.
Another problem I found was 'green prints' these were new prints never projected before. One was scratched on its first run though. Green prints could also cause a slight up and down stutter on the image.
Cured this by using 2:22 a cleaner/lubricator, this was fantastic stuff though not made for a long time, but the prints it was used on are still lubricated. Plus it altered the light refraction and could reduce the impact of scratches. That's what it said on the tin!
I sold my ST1200 for the GS1200 mainly for stereo sound. This had a couple of 'design' faults on the film path.
I suppose the main fault was the use of plastic for some of the film guides.
I was told by CZ Scientific that the bits highlighted in red are the main problems.
Number 1 is part of the auto thread system, this can be removed, but you lose auto thread. I wonder if 2 & 3 could removed? This also is part of the auto thread. 3 is also a part that suffers wear. I would say on the GS1200 the parts that cause the most trouble are 1 & 3. On 2 the film should not make contact anyway. All the green bits seem to be for auto thread anyway.
I always clean before, during and after each use. A blast of canned air for the film path in general, & a brush for the gate area. The compressed air could cause damage to the gate area due to its very cold air.
Think the reason I went for the ELMO's was the spool size & they looked well built. Almost forgot reviews for Eumig's was problem with hum, that put me off them.
Remember Bill Davison who reviewed 'Bootlace' in Movie Maker' used Eumig projector.
Like your view Winbert, just think how many films would be ruined if they still made projectors. Most things now seem to be made to break ASAP.
Your right Hugh. In days gone by the words Made in England/Great Britain/UK/America/Austria/Germany/France/Italy and Japan were a sign of quality. They lasted. My wife is of the "Oh its broke buy new"
Laksmi what's in the card box on the second photo? They don't look like film.
-------------------- I love the smell of film in the morning.
http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/
| IP: Logged
|
|
Patrick McGrath
Film Handler
Posts: 97
From: Huntington Beach, CA
Registered: Jul 2008
|
posted November 01, 2012 04:34 PM
This is a very interesting topic. I am fairly new to this hobby(4 or 5 years now) and have had a couple prints scratched from a couple different projectors. Early on I had a GAF 3000(?) that was really a Chinon in disguise. That machine was responsible for a few scratches. A Sanko 600 put intermittent faint scratches to the far left side. The Sankyo 800 I still own was scratching when I first got it, but I was able to resurface the offending areas and added a roller at the feed-in. That one had wear at the point where the lower loop feeds into the sound head area. Basically the film bounces off the bottom of the head entrance and creates grooves. I smoothed those out but tend to keep my eye on it for further wear. Last year I acquired a nice used ST-180 from Japan. I have used it several times, after a thorough cleaning and polish of everything plastic. I've learned a thing or two about possible scratch hazards! I've had no issues with this machine however I decided to see if I could reduce the potential hazards by eliminating everything in the film path that could scratch. In essence I have modified the machine into a manual thread by removing the feed tray thing, the top and bottom loop formers, and also modifying the 1st and 2nd sprocket pieces which hold the film onto them. I'll post a few pictures when I can. I don't find the manual thread to be inconvenient in any way, but I also collect 16mm and have an old Bell and Howell 179 which is manual thread, so I am used to it. As a matter of fact I used the 179 as a bit of a model,if you will, for my ST-180s manual thread mod experiment.
I can't agree with the sweeping statement aimed at the Japanese early on in this thread and in defense I would say that both Elmo and Eiki 16mm machines are superbly crafted, with much more thought put into film path and higher grade materials. I would guess that because the super 8 market was a lower price point certain materials were used to keep costs down for the end user. And as stated about many aspects of this hobby, it is unlikely that there was ever any thought that these projectors would still be in use 30 years later.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|