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Author Topic: Repairing a Sankyo Stereo 800 - The Journey
Craig Jarvis
Film Handler

Posts: 44
From: Saskatoon, SK. Canada
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted August 13, 2013 10:19 AM      Profile for Craig Jarvis   Author's Homepage   Email Craig Jarvis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Janice. I didn't mean to discourage you but all the electronics and capacitors and bridge rectifiers can be confusing. Yes, cap is lingo for capacitor. Sometimes they don't appear bad and the only thing that truly tests them is called an ESR meter that not many people have, good thing is they're cheap and easiest to just swap out if you have concerns, same for the bridge rectifier. You can check the bridge by putting your meter in diode test (looks like an arrow >| kinda. Meter back and forth across the terminals and note a beep and any of the positions. Without seeing the schematic I would think there would be one main power supply and there would be another totally separate for the motor control. This would be somewhat smaller and have an IC (integrated circuit) on it or a large transistor that regulates the motor speed. I am new (as of last week [Smile] ) to projectors but have fixed many reel to reel tape machines that employ the same electronics to regulate motor speed. Like I mentioned, when you arched your test leads and got the sparks testing your motor.... the mains fuse likely went killing all the subsequent circuits. You have to get the machine back to pre zap state before you can figure out the motor issue. Whatever fuse lays just inside near where the power cord comes into the unit will be the mains fuse. Swap that out, hit the switch and see if your pilot like at least lights up now. Keep me posted.

--------------------
J. Craig Jarvis
Vital Transfers Canada

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010


 - posted August 13, 2013 11:36 AM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio   Email Pasquale DAlessio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Craig

WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!

Someone with your expertise will be greatly appreciated.

PatD

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Craig Jarvis
Film Handler

Posts: 44
From: Saskatoon, SK. Canada
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted August 13, 2013 12:39 PM      Profile for Craig Jarvis   Author's Homepage   Email Craig Jarvis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks PatD. I went back through some of the posts and I see lots of what I said had been looked at already. Fresh set of eyes and perspective never hurts. While I'm thinking about it. Janice, try getting your parts from Digikey, I dealt with them lots and they always had the odd stuff I was looking for. One old trick is to just use your nose.... don't get too close and just sniff around the area in question to see if you smell anything burnt. also, gently tapping any area with components with the plastic part of a screwdriver sometimes shows up bad solder joints that may be the problem. Your testing always starts something like this, cord, mains fuse, power switch then move on to the first board the wires from the switch go to metering all on the AC position and range on your meter set to "200". when you start seeing caps and diodes switch to DC position in the 20 position likely. Your meter will tell you if you're out of range. Keep us posted. I have no idea the inside of your machine but I'm a troubleshooter.

--------------------
J. Craig Jarvis
Vital Transfers Canada

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3220
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted August 13, 2013 12:44 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Craig, I realize this is a long thread and if you haven't read thru each step it can get confusing. Here's a bit of a summary to get up to what we know and where we are to date.

TESTING RESULTS

1. The motor is good.
2. The transformer is bad. I bought and received a replacement transformer.
3. There are 2 areas where the PCB traces are burned out...one on the top speed/audio board and one on the larger lower board effecting power to the motor.
4. I early on shorted something out on the speed board while attempting to meter the Bridge Rectifier. This knocked out the audio.
5. The lamp still works.
6. Despite popular opinion....There are NO FUSES that I can find in this projector.

=======================
NEXT STEPS

Working with Pete Richards in Australia here is the current plan of action. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this Pete [Smile]

1. Repair traces on the 2 PCBs.
2. Replace the existing wire with a fuse holder and fuse on the speed board.
3. Replace the Bridge Rectifier.
4. Replace the Capacitor next to the Bridge Rectifier
5. Replace the transformer.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Craig Jarvis
Film Handler

Posts: 44
From: Saskatoon, SK. Canada
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted August 13, 2013 01:40 PM      Profile for Craig Jarvis   Author's Homepage   Email Craig Jarvis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I only have one word. Wow! I wish you the best of luck. Transformer was bad? just want to check with you, are you sure your meter was on ac and not dc? and that you were measuring across the the centre tap to any of the leads on the secondary? I don't want to stir things and I just want to help. But power transformers don't usually go, especially ones from that era. Never say never but.......let me know how you make out.
Having said that if there were no fuses in the unit it could happen, it's just the DC side usually melts quickest and after it blows the main part stays on. I think you have a handle on things. Always probe circuits with one hand. [Smile]

--------------------
J. Craig Jarvis
Vital Transfers Canada

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Bruce Wright
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 140
From: Denham Springs, La.
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted August 13, 2013 02:52 PM      Profile for Bruce Wright   Author's Homepage   Email Bruce Wright   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A 'fuse clip' is different from a 'fuse holder'. A 'fuse clip'
is only one end of a 'fuse holder'. Or that's the way it is in
my part of the world. Good luck.

--------------------
Bruce Wright

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3220
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted August 13, 2013 07:22 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bruce if you click on the link I posted for the fuse holder you will see they are clips. I was just using the term "fuse holder" as a generic reference for the part and the term I used in my internet search.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010


 - posted August 13, 2013 08:22 PM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio   Email Pasquale DAlessio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
1. Repair traces on the 2 PCBs.
2. Replace the existing wire with a fuse holder and fuse on the speed board.
3. Replace the Bridge Rectifier.
4. Replace the Capacitor next to the Bridge Rectifier
5. Replace the transformer.
6. Get rid of projector.

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Craig Jarvis
Film Handler

Posts: 44
From: Saskatoon, SK. Canada
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted August 13, 2013 09:25 PM      Profile for Craig Jarvis   Author's Homepage   Email Craig Jarvis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
PatD, you are thinking the way I'm thinking. I hate to say it but it's not worth the effort, time or money. Sorry. Tough pill to swallow but I have been there more than a few times.

--------------------
J. Craig Jarvis
Vital Transfers Canada

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Pete Richards
Master Film Handler

Posts: 302
From: Australia
Registered: Sep 2010


 - posted August 13, 2013 11:41 PM      Profile for Pete Richards   Email Pete Richards   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I personally would repurpose it as a telecine setup, you have a nice motor and the mechanics still work, and that motor is easily speed controlled down to 1 or 2 fps just by dropping the voltage.

But Janice already has telecine machines all over the place [Smile]

I look at trying to repair it as a fun adventure/learning exercise, it would probably be less hassle to buy a mechanically broken 800 and swap out the boards.
There has been many a time I have whiled away far too many nights repairing something I probably should have thrown out, but I enjoyed the journey and learned a bit along the way, so it was (kind of) worth it in the end.

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3220
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted August 13, 2013 11:52 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm going to ignore Pat and Craig's posts because they are non-constructive. It's my time and my money so why not be supportive. None of the things listed on the repair list is beyond doing. I'm currently talking with a former co-worker who is interested in helping me and Pete has been very generous with his time to help troubleshoot the issues. He obviously wouldn't be doing this if he didn't feel it was worth the effort.

So please...you may personally think this is a futile project, but maybe refrain from such defeating comments.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4116
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted August 14, 2013 02:09 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am with you, Janice. A French site recommand not to transform projectors in telecine as if too many people do so there won't be projectors left for the next generations to project reel films. Saying that, they value each projector. I think also that each projector wich can be fixed or kept well working should be, even if it is easier or cheaper to thrown it away and buy another one. You get my full support on this project, Janice.

--------------------
Dominique

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 952
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted August 14, 2013 05:29 AM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio   Email Maurizio Di Cintio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello all. I agree 100 % with Dominique. Please, Janice, do not give up!!!! I've seen projectors which were in a stae worse than this one's, which were brought to 100% efficiency. So don't give up. You can do it.

--------------------
Maurizio

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Craig Jarvis
Film Handler

Posts: 44
From: Saskatoon, SK. Canada
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted August 14, 2013 01:02 PM      Profile for Craig Jarvis   Author's Homepage   Email Craig Jarvis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry, I didn't mean to be defeating. If you and the people helping have any electronic based questions feel free to ask. I retired from that now but I can shed insight on older electronics.

--------------------
J. Craig Jarvis
Vital Transfers Canada

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John Selph
Junior
Posts: 28
From: Metairie, LA, USA
Registered: Nov 2012


 - posted August 14, 2013 05:37 PM      Profile for John Selph   Email John Selph   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Janice, I repair a lot of computers and to expound on identifing bad caps you need to look for swollen and leaking caps. If you see any bulging of the capacitor body, or any black or brown "crud" on the component, then it is probably bad. Ironically, I see this on motherboards quite a bit, and the computer still works, but will usually fail within a short period of time. Also, be sure to disconned the AC and discharge any caps that you will be working on, or around. They do "bite"!
John

--------------------
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
- Groucho Marx -

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Phil Mitchell
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 144
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted July 01, 2014 04:40 AM      Profile for Phil Mitchell   Email Phil Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is it me Janice or is your 800 expoericing similar issues to our 600's?

Peter from Australia, do you mind asking me where in Australia you are, I am in Melb Northern Suburbs. as maybe you know more about this than I or know someone in Melb who can check this sort of thing.

You can MSg me if you like, I have a 600 that just stopped running, I am hoping it was where the brushes connect to motor as I noticed a spring was missing for white cable and a bit of dust and fluff came out.
Got some new springs, brushes look okay, but going to have to wait for a mate of mine who has smaller hands and not effected by arthrtis to put them back on again.

The blue and white wire does have power according to my meter.

Cheers
Phil

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3220
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted December 10, 2014 04:35 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Although I don't really have any good news to add to this thread...I thought I would update this saga with my recent activities.

I did the repairs to the two PCB's which came out fine.

 -

After the repairs... I re-inserted the speed board and re-attached all the connections...so far so good. But then I plugged in the power cord...OH NO...some obnoxious smoke started bellowing out of the machine. Didn't seem to be coming from anything in the area of my repairs. Pulled the plug...tried not to breath in the fumes... and got out of the room. Some air freshener helped with the horrible smell...but nothing seems to be helping my poor projector.

To say the least....I'm a bit discouraged at this point. [Frown] [Mad]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1030
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009


 - posted December 13, 2014 09:55 PM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Regarding purchases from Ebay, persons that sell films truly may not know much about them. They may have purchased them at a sale and are just reselling them. Projectors however, are a bit different. Most anybody can plug them in and if they hear the motor/fan running and if the lamp lights, they assume it is working just fine and may state as much in the ebay ad. It is incumbent on anyone purchasing a projector to ask questions. I always ask if it has been tested with film. If it is a sound machine I ask if has been tested with sound film. If not tested with film do the sprockets and reel spindles spin as they should in forward and reverse. I ask if there is any sound from the amp and/or speaker when the volume and tone are adjusted up. If you don't ask these questions, you are really rolling the dice on an Ebay purchase. Based on the problems Janice has found with her projector, that seller clearly knew it did not work properly.

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 682
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted December 14, 2014 08:58 AM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi All,
Read the thread from start to finish. Thrilling!!!
Sorry Janice how much trouble this has been.

If the original ebay advert said it powered on, yet the lights and spindles didn't work...I would, like you, think it was an easy fix.
I've bought 2 machines from ebay, both from 100% feedbackers(that is my new rule unless i personally look at their negatives and see that some people are just mean and leave negs for nothing than i will still consider them 100%). I have been fortunate because:
a) The machines were not this problematic
b) This forum help immensely

All i see now is that all you have purchased was an education, an education of how a sankyo 800 looks inside [Smile]

I really hope you don't give up, even though it has taken this long, but will understand if you throw in the towel on this one...
Did you get the new transformer??
Cheers,
Matt
ps: I agree some ebayers really are clueless with what they sell. Case in point...my new st1200HDM came in a box filled with those annoying pink foam packaging pieces.....just a box with a projector inside filled with those pieces. took me an hour to blow out the machine with compressed air!!!!!Ridiculous [Smile]

--------------------
--
Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3220
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted December 14, 2014 09:25 AM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks guys for the comments. At this point I've pretty much put the whole Ebay transaction scenerio behind me. Live and learn... and I have learned a lot. I had never done any soldering before or used a multimeter. Now I have done both and it was fun. I still don't understand much about electronics...but I know enough now to ask better questions from the experts here.

Matt, I do have a new transformer, which I haven't installed yet. I was waiting to repair the PCB's which I've done. However, the recent incident with the smoke has made me reluctant to move on. I also wanted to replace the Bridge Rectifier and it's adjacent capacitor. The capacitor I can get easily...but the bridge rectifier is a mystery. I don't have a clue to what I can use to replace it.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 682
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted December 14, 2014 10:37 AM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm like you..just dabble here and there with a multimeter, but really don't know enough about it to be totally confident.

I think what you need going forward, before turning on any more power etc...is, once the pcb is fixed and then replace the bridge rectifier, find out from the gurus here what order you can safely turn things back on, so as not to re-fry anything.
The last thing you want is to blow that new transformer(if that is possible). I am more worried about your safety of course! So far you are doing good.
The fact that Pete even blew a fuse, and he knows what he is doing, shows how easy it is to mess up.... Such a scarey project, but i agree- FUN!!
I will watch in anticipation as well...with popcorn in hand... [Smile] Here in Canada, Radio Shack is now 'The Source' which i nowhere as good as radioshack used to be here, but they used to carry rectifiers and such. I am sure someone here will have an extra one that will work for you!
Cheers,
Matt

--------------------
--
Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3220
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted December 14, 2014 11:05 AM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I forgot...I also need to insert a fuse holder and fuse where just a wire is right now. I think I'll revisit this in a month or so. Time to enjoy the holidays right now [Smile]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Joe Balitzki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 529
From: Charleston, SC, USA
Registered: Aug 2005


 - posted December 14, 2014 10:58 PM      Profile for Joe Balitzki   Email Joe Balitzki   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm sure Janice will triumph eventually because she is our 8mm BOND GIRL [Smile]

Rumor has it that she will be offering her own T-Shirts with her picture on them next year. In the picture, she is painted Gold, wearing a Gold Bikini, and caressing a Elmo Super 8mm Xenon Projector...
[Eek!]

--------------------
Movie Lovers Do It in the Dark

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3220
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted December 15, 2014 01:26 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe...You are making me blush AGAIN. A photo on a T-Shirt... possibly, but a gold bikini...OMG...I don't think you want to see that [Eek!] Let's just leave it up to your imagination and so will I. [Roll Eyes] I'm glad we can have some fun in the midst of utter disappointment in working on this projector. [Smile]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Joe Balitzki
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 529
From: Charleston, SC, USA
Registered: Aug 2005


 - posted December 17, 2014 09:50 PM      Profile for Joe Balitzki   Email Joe Balitzki   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm glad I was able to make you smile and dissipate some of your frustration!
[Wink]

--------------------
Movie Lovers Do It in the Dark

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