8mm Forum: Standard 8mm or Regular8

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Topic: Standard 8mm or Regular8

David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

posted November 21, 2013 01:59 PM

I have a couple of standard 8 films, but nothing to show them on. What is a good projector to buy?

Are these OK Silma 240 which was also a Prinz Compare Standard 8 from Dixons. Or Eumigs, which ever must be sound

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 21, 2013 04:26 PM

I had bad experience with the Silma. I had the same problem with two projectors : the speed button (at the rear of the machine) not responding anymore.

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Dominique

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John Last
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 104
From: Codsall, UK
Registered: Dec 2012

posted November 23, 2013 10:53 AM

Standard 8 is great! I've just edited a 1959 film that I took all those years ago and it's as good as new. I have a Eumig S 712 and a Eumig Mark S for sale (both v.good sound projectors) if any one is interested.

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Thomas Dafnides
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: St. Louis, Missouri USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted November 24, 2013 07:28 PM

At the time Super 8 was introduced...Consumer Reports did a review of the new film format. Their conclusion was that Super 8 offered no significant improvement to justify replacing working standard 8mm equipment.
The higher priced Super 8 cameras did offer improved resolution over Standard 8mm, but many super 8 cameras had inferior plastic lenses, whose picture was sometimes inferior to standard 8mm.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 24, 2013 08:43 PM

In fact, super 8 was a step backwards in many ways. The tatty Kodak plastic cartridge was a boondoggle - Fuji showed how to do it properly with their single 8 cartridge. For whatever reason, prime lenses were abandoned in favour of zoom lenses for both camera and projectors, and a lot of these were plastic instead of glass. So picture quality went out of the window with a lot of cameras and projectors. Most cameras and projectors also seemed to switch from metal to plastic construction at the time of super 8 introduction.
IMO no super 8 camera ever matched the quality that could be obtained with Bolex 8mm cameras fitted with prime Kern Switar lenses.
Yes, super 8mm in theory should be 50% better than regular 8, but in practice this was rarely realised. And there were no technical advances achieved on super 8 that could not have also been obtained on standard 8.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
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Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted November 25, 2013 06:14 AM

And we had to pay more for using Kodak's new baby. Standard 8 film ran at 16fps, whereas Super 8 ran at 18fps. Did they ever say why the change in speed was necessary?

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Maurice

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

posted November 25, 2013 10:57 AM

Kodak set 18 fps for Super 8 to adhere to the ASA (American Standards Association) standardised "silent" speed adopted in 1960 for 16mm projection. Some manufacturers such as Bolex changed from 16 to 18 fps well before Super 8.

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Paul.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted November 25, 2013 11:00 AM

I also wondered why there was a 16 to 18 fps move. From what I readed (not exactly about that but about filming at 24 fps instead of 18 or 16 fps), a higher speed improves the sound (at least it was like this before) and the picture. It also allows the film to heat less when it pass in front of the projector lamp. But does 2fps really make a difference ? Or is it more, as suggested, to make you buy more filmstock ?

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Dominique

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009

posted November 25, 2013 11:07 AM

John, I am unable to send you a PM.

Could you provide some more info on the Mark S you are selling, and possibly pictures?

What is your asking price?

My mail is ch.bjorgen@gmail.com

regards
Chris

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Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

posted November 25, 2013 11:09 AM

2 fps doesn't sound much but it's a 12.5% (1/8th) increase on 16 fps. The change was justified by the American Standards Association to reduce flicker but many people pointed out that the Bell & Howell 16mm projector of the time overheated below 18 fps due to the slower speed of the cooling fan. Of course Super 8 was a more expensive format at 72 frames per foot not 80 frames per foot and 18 fps not 16 fps!

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Paul.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted November 26, 2013 02:41 AM

I quote from the Bell & Howell Projector Book by Edwyn Gilmour (Focal Press 1960):-
"The normal projector lamp to be used is a 750 watt lamp. For really large screens you can also use a 1000 watt lamp, provided you only project sound films at 24 f.p.s. Never use the 1000 watt lamp for projecting silent films at 16 f.p.s.; at that speed the cooling provided by the fan is insufficient."
The book refers to the wooden blimp models, 601 to 640.

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Maurice

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