8mm Forum: Elmo ST-1200 Projector

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Topic: Elmo ST-1200 Projector

Ernie Zahn
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Greenwich, CT, USA
Registered: Oct 2004

posted August 19, 2013 01:14 PM

Hi all,

I recently bought an ST 1200 and it arrived today. Upon opening it I saw that the motor control switch is busted so I replaced it with the switch from my ST 600, that was solved.

Upon turning it on though, I could hear a loud crunching noise. I've never had a heavy duty projector like this so I wasn't sure if it was normal.

I tried loading a film and found that none of the visible mechanisms were moving at all. The film wasn't even being accepted into the projector.

Seeing no movement from removing the faceplate and that crunching sound still persisting, I'm sure there must be something stuck. I'm not mechanically inclined to mess around with this so I don't want to poke around.

Just wondering if this issue sounds familiar? If so how bad is it? It was advertised on eBay as working perfectly, though I noticed the bulb is dead. Not a big deal but funny that they didn't mention it. Makes me wonder what else is going on. Maybe the belts need to be replaced?

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Check out the trailer for my feature length Spaghetti-style Western:

Six and Bisti

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 19, 2013 01:41 PM

The ST-1200 is usually on the quiet side, so the crunching sound is definitely not normal.

There should be belts from the motor pulley up to a rocker mechanism with two rollers (1 for 18 FPS, 1 for 24). Whenever the motor is spinning, all of this stuff plus the main shaft it powers should be in motion.

If you take the back cover off (CAREFUL: You've just exposed 117 VAC!) you should be able to connect the power cord, stick 'er in gear and watch what's moving and what isn't!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted August 19, 2013 02:06 PM

Except if something happened during the transportation, the mention "working perfectly" was not appropriate following what you describe.

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Dominique

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Ernie Zahn
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Greenwich, CT, USA
Registered: Oct 2004

posted August 19, 2013 02:10 PM

Thanks for the advice.

I popped open the back panel and the belts are in fact broken. Not only broken but they are melted. Perhaps the package was sitting in the sun or extreme heat while on its 7 day journey to my house?

As far as I can tell the melted rubber hasn't gotten into anywhere sensitive and I can likely scrub it off the wheels. I was able to scrub it off my hands anyway:-P

Now, seeing that both belts are broken, is it possible that this is the culprit for crunching noise? Or do I have another thing to worry about.

And yes, Dominique I will certainly be looking for a refund if this is not resolved.

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Check out the trailer for my feature length Spaghetti-style Western:

Six and Bisti

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009

posted August 19, 2013 02:14 PM

Hi Ernie!

The belts on these tend to go pretty bad after a certain amount of time, luckily it's a cheap fix! I had that same odd noise on my ST-600 when I got it, and it was because of the gears and wheels running on empty.

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Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 19, 2013 02:28 PM

I guess the thing to do is once you de-belt it, power up the motor and see that it operates (and operates quietly), then move the other parts by hand and make sure they move freely.

-then on to new belts.

It's true: the belts turn to goo over time. This machine was not operable just before shipment.

In good shape these are wonderful machines. I hope you can make it right.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted August 19, 2013 02:52 PM

Ernie
Are you going to try to get a partial refund from the eBay seller? It doesn't sound as if it was described accurately.

Unfortunately, the ST1200 series do suffer with their drives which give problems as the rubber "melts", particularly the rubber drive around the shutter.

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Maurice

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted August 19, 2013 03:36 PM

There is NO way it was working perfectly. Send it back for a refund or file a claim with ebay. the belts melt and turn to black goo which is a pain in the butt to clean. It has nothing to do with the sun. Just deterioration over time.

PatD

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Bruce Wright
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 140
From: Denham Springs, La.
Registered: Oct 2011

posted August 19, 2013 05:07 PM

To clean off the rubber goo is quite simple. Get 5,000 q'tips,
a bottle of alcohol(70% isopropyl)a roll of paper towels and
a LOT of free time. Take it from one that has been there. I have cleaned the goo off of two ST 1200 machines. Once done the
1200 was well worth the trouble. Forget about the belt on the
counter. I cleaned it but to put on a new belt, not worth the trouble. Seems some sort of refund maybe ? Good luck

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Bruce Wright

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Lindsay Morris
Film Handler

Posts: 87
From: Darlington, WA, Australia
Registered: Jul 2013

posted August 20, 2013 07:04 AM

Exactly what the others have all said...the rubber turns to goo over time and is a slow and methodical job to remove it all.
There is a good supply of belt kits from a EBay seller in the USA so if you were game it is not impossible for most people to replace the belts..particularly with the help from others on this forum. [Smile]

I have just done a ST1200 for a friend and a ST1200HD for myself and the only problem I have got is what sort of adhesive to use to make sure that shutter rim drive belt STAYS on there.
I have tried Super Glue and a new Selleys product called Ultrarepair which is claimed to have a strong bond AND be flexible.
Both belts have failed to stick and now I am about to order a couple of new ones as the last failures saw the belts chomped up and rendered useless. Bugger.

I know some folk advocate leaving the belts off and maybe it would come to that but the machines ARE much quieter when they are fitted.
In addition the omission of the belt tends to make the 18FPS drive rather unreliable as the lack of that couple of millimetres means that the grip is reduced.

Anyone here got any good ideas on a suitable adhesive [Confused]

For anyone replacing the shutter rim drive belt it helps heaps to remove the 2 speed pulley system to give you clear access to the shutter rim.
BUT be careful replacing the 2 speed pulley system by ensuring that you get the position of the mounting brackets EXACTLY the same as they were when you dismantled things. In particular the bracket MUST go back behind the mounting lug for the fan housing.
It is easy to put it on top but that throws the adjustment for the correct drive tension between the 2 speed pulleys and the shutter rim.
Also the screws have a weenie bit of slop in the mounting holes and if the pulley assembly is positioned with it UPWARDS hard against the screws the neat feature of the Elmo machines to LIFT the drive wheel OFF the shutter rim drive when switched OFF is negated.
Then over time flat spots develop on the driving wheel AND the rim drive giving you fluttery sound and in bad cases lots of noise.
The trick is to push firmly DOWNWARDS as you tighten up the securing screws and this maintains the correct position of the actuating lever which ever so slightly in the OFF position pushes the 2 speed pulley assembly UP and OFF the rim of the shutter. [Smile]

Lindsay

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Lindsay

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Ernie Zahn
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Greenwich, CT, USA
Registered: Oct 2004

posted August 20, 2013 09:31 PM

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! The seller has been very good about this and very apologetic. He has offered me two options:

1. I send it out for repair and he covers the cost.

2. I simply return it and he gives me a full refund.

What are your thoughts? Also, is there a place I can take this to get repaired? I paid $250 shipped for it and he'll cover the cost of repair. So my cost will still only be the $250.

--------------------
Check out the trailer for my feature length Spaghetti-style Western:

Six and Bisti

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 20, 2013 09:47 PM

Ernie,

If you have cleaned all the broken belt, try to turn on the projector.

If the motor is turning, best possibility the projector is working. In this case you can buy a complete ST-1200 belt set for around $18 - $24.

You can buy from Ebay seller by the ID name: needitgone or isellprojectorbelt.

However, if you still hear that noises although belts have been removed, there must be something wrong.

Check the fan blade if it is touching something. Sometime it is a simple matter, e.g a paper stuck on the blade and it creates such noises.

Or the blade has bent and touching the housing fan metal nearby. Try to re-bent.

Otherwise there is another problem you cannot encounter to. Return the projector for a full refund.

cheers,

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Winbert

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Ernie Zahn
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Greenwich, CT, USA
Registered: Oct 2004

posted August 20, 2013 11:14 PM

Thanks for all the continued help folks.

I just took at the interior again. There are wheels (I guess you'd call them.) that are spinning just fine. They are beltless of course. They are spinning OK but I noticed they are the source of the noise. When I put the projector in reverse motion it sounds super quiet and runs smoothly. I think there is a chunk of belt stuck to one of those wheels and it is slapping the other wheel at a fast rate, so the crunching is really a high speed slapping.

Is there somewhere I can send this? I'd prefer to return it if there is no hope. If I send it out get the belts replaced and someone, more qualified than me, confirmed that was the only issue then I should be on good shape.

--------------------
Check out the trailer for my feature length Spaghetti-style Western:

Six and Bisti

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