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Author Topic: Why do you prefer Super 8?
Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4798
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted November 06, 2013 04:13 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
lets all remeber that super 8mm is the gauge for home movies,i.e. amatures and enthusiats like all of us, i also have a very small collection of 16mm and of course the quality is going to be better in many cases,its a larger gauge and its use was semi-proffesionals and TV, many features were also shot on this gauge but the costs prohibit most people of an average wage. Super 8mm ,as ive said, is designed for the home use but quality wise its wrong to trash it, some titles are so good its hard to belive they are 8mm and not 16. If you want to project onto very large screens in big halls then obviously 16mm is better for you but i cant sit back and see 8mm critised like this, thats just ridiculous.
As for the question asked, my choice of gauge is 8mm, for cost,size and its more than ideal for the home use, if you watch films on 8mm like Mickeys xmas carol, the fog, infact most of the films released by Derann,Walton and other top 8mm dealers the quality is generally outstanding. Most people have homes with rooms that are perfectly matched for the projection of 8mm, we all have an opinion but go easy on our gauge [Wink]

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Mal Brake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 586
From: Neath, South Wales, UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2013 04:34 PM      Profile for Mal Brake   Email Mal Brake   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David, I too used to attend the Blackpool events when hosted by Regent Films and Bill Davison.
Yes it was Tony Shapps presenting the scope shows. The screen in question was the 16ft wide 'sidewinder'. I almost bought one from Tony but at £300 it was a little too much for me at the time.

I have successfully projected super8 in halls onto an 8ft wide screen. As Michael implies, viewer to screen distance is very important. I made sure the screen was set well away from the front row of people.
On one occasion I projected a DCR film 'Tracks Around The Island' which has stunning colour.One person approached me and said "you can't beat good old 16mil can you"? I invited him to take a closer look at the GS..

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I'm gonna live forever or die trying

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

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From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted November 06, 2013 04:58 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Of course, there's one thing that's been overlooked in this.

It does depend on what titles one likes to collect.

My main interest is the silent era and pre-code stuff. There's little of much interest or in good quality on Super 8 from that era in the feature length dept. For my purposes 16mm is invaluable.

There are some who collect Super 8 for it's own sake, by which I mean collecting digests, cut-downs, etc. I have no interest in this, but, as I said above there are some two reel comedies by certain distributors which, to me, are more than adequate on Super 8. I'm very much a fan of Charley Chase and I see no need to spend up to £100 in some cases on a Chase two-reeler on 16mm when I can have much the same on Super 8 for £10 - £20.

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David Guest
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From: Lancashire, UK
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 - posted November 06, 2013 05:25 PM      Profile for David Guest   Email David Guest   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
re stalls I would think that most of the stalls will be selling a variety of cine films and accessories ,re mr ashfields statement I am in no way "putting down" the Convention but as a Super 8 collector, I attended last years convention and actually spent longer queueing to get in than I actually spent in the dealers hall. There was very little in the way of Super 8 product available end of quote . my wife and daughter in law was on the door and they had everyone in very quickly as the business we are in we deal with crowd control very good as every weekend we deal with thousands of people of all ages .I seem to see paul foster going away with lots of super 8 films etc plus many more and there is always plenty of super 8 items on the bring and buy as well

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Mike Peckham
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From: West Sussex, UK.
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 - posted November 06, 2013 05:39 PM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David, you should see one of the fantastic and highly professional super 8 presentations at the BFCC where John and Keith use John’s HTI GS1200 to project a scope image onto their 24ft wide screen. It would change your view of the potential of super 8!

My preference has always been for super as there are plenty of titles available that interest me, the film and equipment is of a size that makes storage practical and the image and sound has the potential to rival 16mm.

But in an ideal world I would like to collect all gauges!

Mike [Cool]

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David Guest
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From: Lancashire, UK
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 - posted November 06, 2013 05:48 PM      Profile for David Guest   Email David Guest   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
hi mike yes maybe next year I will have a stall at ealing and then I will be able to see the film show on super 8 but even with a good lamp behind it and distance there must be some sort of picture quality but that's only my opinion in fact I have just got home from picking up a xenon super 8 projecter so will be trying it tomorrow in my cinema I will be projecting 20ft with the super 8 and same with my 16mm xenon showing identical films so I will be able to see which is the best

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Winbert Hutahaean
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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted November 06, 2013 09:12 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This type of question had been discussed on several threads in this forum.

To me collecting small gauges film does really mean "small". Going to larger format means that you are no longer on small gauge league.

When we are in a VW buggy forum, there is no point to ask why you don't go to VW Karmann Ghia which is more comfortable and faster. We know that of course.

I am collecting super 8mm for the sake of loving the film format (i.e celluloid). If I want to get easier and unfaded film, simply watch DVD with a Pany LCD projector.

But I love real film, and since I am projecting inside the house, I chose super 8mm only with the below reasons:

1. Space (I want to have films as many as possible, but my life CANNOT be surrounded by can of can films. I have to have another side of my life. My family needs my attention too)

2. Price (I already set my self to spend around max. $30 for a digest or $100 for a feature. I have more money in my banks but my life is not only for films. I need to enjoy the other sides of this world)

3. Time with film (8mm has more digest, 2 or 3 parters while 16mm is mostly full feature. I can enjoy one title through a digest/three parter and doing something worth after that. With 16mm, I have to sit 2 hours to enjoy one title. My kids will not be able to do this, while I want my kids also to get involved in this hobby too. A digest or 2/3 parters is the only option to attract them).

4. Stereo (8mm has stereo sound while 16mm is only mono. I cannot say mono is better than stereo unless I only have one ear [Big Grin] )

5. Art works (8mm is mostly with nice artwork, while 16mm comes only with can or plain box. It is so boring to see can by can on my library self compared to blue Marketing Film box which I always proud as the best super 8mm art work)

8mm is grainier.... sure...this is only 8mm format. Will I try to upgrade to 16mm..... ?

Do you think it will solve the problem? ...Why then not to go to 35mm which is obviously sharper than 16mm?

...But then how about 70mm?

Out human life will never get satisfied to anything, that is why after VHS we have LD then DVD and now BluRay. This will only cost you more money eventually.

my 2 cents,

--------------------
Winbert

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Graham Ritchie
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From: New Zealand
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 - posted November 06, 2013 10:33 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One of the things I have found with Super8 is that there is less chance of finding films with damaged sprocket holes compared with 16mm.

A lot of 16mm prints I have come across, have had a hard time over the years "sprocket wise" simply, because you have a claw pulling the film down, and its a much wider frame area being dragged down through the gate than with Super8.

Once the perforations on 16mm get damaged like that, the film will get jumpy in the gate. I am not saying you wont find damaged perforations in Super8.....I just have not come across it as much, actually, very seldom on Super8.

Another point, and Winbert has just made it, is the cut down 3/400ft films like "Airplane" and the like, they do make the movie far more enjoyable to watch, time and time again simply because they were well edited "padding removed" and have a running time of only around 50 minutes.

Derann also released heaps of interesting stuff on 8mm over the years "Look at Life" etc and a lot of the colour is still fine.

I have put on Super8 film shows in the past where people comment afterwards, how good 8mm can actually look. But like any film projecting, its down to the quality of the print, the projector itself eg two bladed, the lens, the screen...has it got generous amount of black and so on.

As far as film gauges...I really would like an "IMAX" projector [Cool] and platter as they have now gone down the digital yellow brick road.....I do need a bigger garage [Roll Eyes] [Wink]

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Oemer Yalinkilic
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Berlin, Germany
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted November 07, 2013 03:50 AM      Profile for Oemer Yalinkilic   Author's Homepage   Email Oemer Yalinkilic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you very much for the lively discussion.
This topic is not new, but I am thinking myself often about this question and I changed my mind from time to time.
I sold few years ago many titles from my 16mm collection as I started to collect 35mm. Later I regret that I sold some prints.
But this is often the problem between 35mm and 16mm. To decide if I want a title on 35mm or 16mm is not a matter.
What I don´t understand is the question between Super 8 and 16mm.
Recently I bought some desirable titles on Super 8 and as I cogitate about the value of the prints and comparable 16mm prints value, it was a mystery for me, why someone pay sometimes more for a Super 8 print than the same or similar title on 16mm.
For example some time ago as a forum member from Spain wanted to sell his 16mm LPP print of The Blade Runner, it was not sold immediately. But lot of forum members would buy a brand new Super 8 print of Blade Runner.
The reason can´t be only the Stereo sound.

The other curiosity was as I sold some years ago my 16mm original LPP scope print of Return of the Jedi on Ebay.
I got something around of 500 Euro for my print, the buyer sold few days later his Super 8 print and he got the same price for his Super 8 print.
And I must say, the 16mm print was definitely better.

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Brian Stearns
Master Film Handler

Posts: 487
From: Lexington
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted November 07, 2013 04:08 AM      Profile for Brian Stearns         Edit/Delete Post 
I enjoy the cutdowns, having a family sometimes I don't have time to watch a whole film.great things are storage space,cheaper shipping and easier to put them in book bag. 16mm films don't go well in them.

I like 16mm because the variety of films and tv shows. I hate films on cores or no cores. I rather pay extra shipping.

Collecting 8mm films for me are cheaper then 16mm films.Though I see people on eBay charge 16mm prices for 8mm film.

Nothing like projecting a film on the wall. Ahhh the smell of a projector

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Keith Ashfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: U.K.
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted November 07, 2013 04:13 AM      Profile for Keith Ashfield     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mr Guest -

quote:
my wife and daughter in law was on the door and they had everyone in very quickly as the business we are in we deal with crowd control very good as every weekend we deal with thousands of people of all ages .
Just shows how short a time we were in the dealers room [Smile]

quote:
I seem to see paul foster going away with lots of super 8 films etc
The secret is to get there before Paul [Wink]

quote:
plus many more and there is always plenty of super 8 items on the bring and buy as well
Couldn't see the Super 8 for because of the amount of DVD's on the stall. Must have been the "sand in my eyes" [Razz]

Seriously David - I am not "rubbishing" your efforts witn the convention, I am pleased that you have the Convention and appreciate the amount of hard work that goes into this event. I will be attending this year (providing I can get in before Mr Foster) . [Big Grin]

My comments were "just an opinion", as a Super 8 collector, as your statement about Super 8 quality, being a "larger gauge" collector, was an opinion. [Smile] [Big Grin] )

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"We'll find 'em in the end, I promise you. We'll find 'em. Just as sure as a turnin' of the earth".

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David Guest
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From: Lancashire, UK
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 - posted November 07, 2013 04:34 AM      Profile for David Guest   Email David Guest   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
hi kieth I understand what you are saying I have trebled the size of the bring and buy this year as it was as you stated overcrowed with all sorts of stuff ,I don't let any one in till 10am but paul foster is always at the front ready to get in ,there are some new sellers this year attending one guy selling refurbished projecers 8 and 16 .and I would think that most of the stalls will have super 8 on ,I have some super 8 features this year which I will be selling

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Keith Ashfield
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From: U.K.
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 - posted November 07, 2013 05:13 AM      Profile for Keith Ashfield     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good news David. Looking forward to the event.

--------------------
"We'll find 'em in the end, I promise you. We'll find 'em. Just as sure as a turnin' of the earth".

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Mal Brake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 586
From: Neath, South Wales, UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 07, 2013 05:43 AM      Profile for Mal Brake   Email Mal Brake   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From Graham
[QUOTE] ] One of the things I have found with Super8 is that there is less chance of finding films with damaged sprocket holes compared with 16mm.

That was my experience too when I added 16mm to the hobby. One would have thought that there would be more damage to S8 seeing how close the sprocket holes are to the edge of the film.

There is one scenario where big screen presentation of S8 can be marred and that is the appearance of lines /scratches.16mm is about 4 times the area of S8 so a line a fraction of a mil wide would look less intrusive on 16mm than it would on the much more magnified S8 image on the same size screen, given the relative picture areas.

--------------------
I'm gonna live forever or die trying

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Winbert Hutahaean
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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted November 07, 2013 08:16 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
The other curiosity was as I sold some years ago my 16mm original LPP scope print of Return of the Jedi on Ebay.
I got something around of 500 Euro for my print, the buyer sold few days later his Super 8 print and he got the same price for his Super 8 print.
And I must say, the 16mm print was definitely better.


Oemer, that is to show tha basic principle of economic, i.e supply and demand.

We all know that the supply of ROTJ on 16mm is rather plenty compared to 8mm. There are a lot of ROTJ version on 16mm knowing it was used for certain purposes (TV, librarry, small cinema at rigs/clubs, etc). But 8mm afaik is only available from Derann.

All 8mm collectors who are looking ROTJ will only after this version and that will pump its price up, right?

This happens in any type of collecting hoby that include my initial parallelism that a certain model of VW buggy will sell more than a reguler Karmann Ghia [Wink]

Cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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David Ollerearnshaw
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 - posted November 07, 2013 08:26 AM      Profile for David Ollerearnshaw   Author's Homepage   Email David Ollerearnshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When you look back to the early 70's and the film hire libraries were in full swing, the major complaint was the 'new' gauge super 8 prints coming back scratched and with damaged sprockets. Some at the time dropped super 8 and just had standard 8.

Look at some of the projectors available in the first 10 years of super 8 that doesn't surprise me.

I bought an ex-library print of "The Naked And The Dead" 4x400ft B/W, cost maybe £10 the part where the claw would have engaged were all torn.

Remember a lot of projectors didn't have sprockets, they just used the claw to pull the film though. Frightening that, but cheap to make.

One reason I also have 16mm is more variety in features, usually complete. Also like Brian says the TV shows such as "Hogan's Heroes" "The Flintstones" "Hawaii-5-O" and many more.

Now if I had a big BIG BIG house 70mm could be there. Dream over.

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I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Osi Osgood
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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
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 - posted November 07, 2013 12:11 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm surprised that I didn't notice this topic earlier ...

It's a matter of cost, but great curiosity. I rarely collect super 8 magnetic anymore, (though Winberts comment about stereo is certainly a valid point, and there's nothing like having that stereo booming on a spectacular print!), I love to collect the optical sound features as, they usually have a sharpness on par with nay good 16MM and the number of extremely rare prints on super 8 optical sound is still quite inviting ...

... though, I'm running out of unexplored continents for finding rare super 8 optical sound. They have popped up in the strangest places, I must say.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Paul Adsett
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 - posted November 07, 2013 05:32 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Osi,
But are,nt most optical prints now faded to pink? And does that also mean that the sound track is disappearing as well?

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Andrew Woodcock
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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted November 13, 2013 05:29 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
No Paul, not all by any means as I have quite a few that still have very good colour even if not excellent colour compared to LPP prints, for example Lethal Weapon, Croc Dundee, A Fish Called Wanda etc

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Osi Osgood
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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
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 - posted November 14, 2013 12:40 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, My Croc Dundee still looks great ...

Micheal, I'd strongly urge you to look at Blackhawks catalog of early cinema. In many cases, films weren't actually "resurrected from the dung heap" by Blackhawk's efforts, and while there are some lower quality releases, (for instance, the laurel and Hardy features), the silent shorts tend to be of very high quality, and even better when you see the earlier standard 8mm prints, which are often quite stunning.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Michael O'Regan
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From: Essex, UK
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 - posted November 14, 2013 12:47 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Osi,

Yep, I realise that there is SOME Super 8 from my era of interest from Blackhawk, in particular.
My point is that there is way more on 16mm.

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Robert Crewdson
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 - posted November 14, 2013 01:01 PM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Are Super 8 optical prints produced any different from 16mm optical. I have one short that was red when I got it. I never noticed anything different about the sound.

Regarding more prints in 16mm with damaged perforations than Super 8, could this have anything to do with the fact that some prints will have had a lot of use on projectors that were manually threaded. I damaged one film on a manual threader because I hadn't noticed that the film had come of the rear guide roller when I turned the switch to forward.

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Andrew Woodcock
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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted November 15, 2013 08:16 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I know that the soundtrack can fade if the print fades but on any I have even if the print has faded a little the soundtrack is still ok. As with all optical soundtracks you never get a brilliant frequency range on them and they do tend to be very "clacky" to my ears with far too much midrange and treble and nowhere near enough lower end frequencies even with the tone setting at it's lowest, but ironically the one print I have where the soundrack is fading has brilliant colour? Doesn't make sense I know unless the recording was always too low. That, I suppose, I will never know unless anyone else still has a copy of "She'll Follow You Anywhere". Quite a rare 70's British comedy and somewhat in the vein of the "Carry On" series.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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