8mm Forum: Vinegar Smell vs. Film Smell

»	8mm Forum » 8mm Forum » Vinegar Smell vs. Film Smell (Page 2)

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2

Author

Topic: Vinegar Smell vs. Film Smell

Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

posted November 27, 2013 11:28 AM

I think the controversial part of Gerald's post is the evidence regarding the way that VS will sometimes NOT spread, despite other VS-free film being right next to footage with VS on the same reel. VS is sometimes talked about as if it's like a plague that will easily spread to anything in the vicinity, which I don't buy into as I don't see why a little VS 'gas' in the atmposphere should trigger the chemical reaction in other films, even though I would separate a VS film from others to be on the safe side. Maybe what appears to be spreading may be a case of the reaction in a film that's already prone to VS being speeded up. One factor that has supported the concept of it easily spreading is the fact that sometimes a stock of films is discovered in which a high proportion all have VS, but I'd be inclined to think that decades of storage in less than ideal circumstances - partricularly too much heat - may generally be contributory factors in such cases.

--------------------
Adrian Winchester

| IP: Logged

Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted September 15, 2014 04:49 PM

I think that I got my first VS film (from the US by the way). It's a 16 mm film in a plasric box. It looks normal but has a vinegar smell. The smell is strong when you open the box and then weaker but still there. I will leave the box open all the night to see what happens tomorrow. Maybe it is only the beginning of the process and it is still possible to stop or to slow it.

--------------------
Dominique

| IP: Logged

Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted September 16, 2014 02:24 AM

Film buying from the US can sometimes be a problem as to where the seller lives, a large part of the US has a climate which if the film has not been stored correctly may start the vinegar process.

As it has always been said that once started there is little that can be done to alleviate it. However, if it is only a slight smell you could try leaving it in the sun for a few days, turning over every few hours. Afterwards, ensure that the film is well ventilated and kept away from your prized films.

You could of course try the chemical treatments which are often described on this Forum.

--------------------
Maurice

| IP: Logged

Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 16, 2014 06:42 AM

For those of you coming to the Cinesea meeting next month, I will be bringing a bottle of Vinegar with me for all to sprinkle on their films to bring prices down.... or to use on salads during the meeting.

| IP: Logged

Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted September 17, 2014 09:25 AM

Maurice, I should have taken the reel with me on Holiday for the sun ;-)

--------------------
Dominique

| IP: Logged

Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted September 18, 2014 02:03 PM

I let the film outside (on the reel) until now. I have put it on a another reel putting Filmguard on it and wil rewind it tomorrow on the original (cleaned reel) again putting Filmguard. The smell is still there but much weaker.

--------------------
Dominique

| IP: Logged

Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted September 18, 2014 02:38 PM

Don't store it in a cardboard carton, the cardboard will absorb the vinegar odour.

--------------------
Maurice

| IP: Logged

Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted September 18, 2014 02:47 PM

Thanks for the tip, Maurice.

--------------------
Dominique

| IP: Logged

Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted September 19, 2014 05:29 PM

Any vinegar print straight to Le Bin. Best place for it.

Mind you I have in the past had people who think the best thing to do was to sell it to me with no mention !!!

The joys of cine !!!

Best Mark.

| IP: Logged

Clyde Miles
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 205
From: Bromsgrove, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

posted September 19, 2014 05:52 PM

i have had prints that smell of vinegar for years and years, just let them breath out of a can or box, most survive and some don't

| IP: Logged

Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted September 20, 2014 03:49 PM

Gerald, can you print out all that information with the photos, it would make for good reference - Shorty

| IP: Logged

Burton Sundquist
Master Film Handler

Posts: 318
From: Burnaby, B.C. Canada
Registered: Feb 2017

posted October 30, 2017 12:58 AM

...A new reply to this thread. I have just recently received 2 prints from different sellers, Not to worry, eBay sellers.
One B&W, the other color. Both were acetate prints, and both had been heavily treated with Vitafilm. They both shared the same characteristics when re spooling
Very loose and spongy when touching the surface of the film as it was wound on the spool. It took quite a lot of tension to wind these without slips and gaps.
None of my other acetate prints have had rewind trouble or feel spongy.
I have decided not to screen them and have them stored separately for the moment. Sounds like the chemical VS Gerald was referring to. The thing is I don't smell vinegar, rather the film not wanting to stay tightly wound troubles me...

[ October 30, 2017, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: Burton Sundquist ]

| IP: Logged

Daniel D. Teoli Jr.
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Aug 2017

posted October 30, 2017 08:05 PM

Burton, when you rub the film with your fingers does it feel greasy and leave grease trails? Sometimes excess film preserver residue can be seen.

I have a number of VS films from the 30's and 40s' A few are showing very slight warping / faceting. As was said, if you let them air out they seem to do better.

My worst ones had a vinegar smell that would burn your nose if you took a good whiff.

I have a number of film preservatives to do tests and reports on, now need to find some good candidates to experiment on.

| IP: Logged

Burton Sundquist
Master Film Handler

Posts: 318
From: Burnaby, B.C. Canada
Registered: Feb 2017

posted October 30, 2017 11:32 PM

Daniel, the print's characteristics sound very much like Chemical VS as described by Gerald. The seller told me it had been thoroughly treated with Vitafilm, so right now that is all I smell. Very strong chemical smell, like a bad aftershave. It feels like a treated print, a residue comes off the film onto my finger. as I looked at the print on my editor it would not wind tightly. and touching the crest of the spool the film feels spongy. This stock is not robust and sturdy as most acetate I have, this is bendy an thin. As I say I could not smell vinegar over the Vitafilm. I know the VS you mean though, I had one of those too and nearly knocked me over!

| IP: Logged

All times are Central

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2