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Author Topic: Sankyo 600 stops running and soemtimes will
Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3318
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted July 07, 2014 02:37 AM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've been resolving a problem of "the jitters" with my Sankyo 1000 and 2000H projectors. I'm not going to remove anything on the Sankyo 600 until I have a chance to test some of the components on the control board...need to get a new volt meter too. Glad you are keeping us posted on your trouble-shooting [Smile]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Phil Mitchell
Expert Film Handler

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From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted July 12, 2014 02:46 AM      Profile for Phil Mitchell   Email Phil Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Janice and others.

Question Janice I noticed on your thread re Snakyo 800 you got motor running off a 9 volt battery,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O94IFQ6ThsM

Now I'd suspect I could do same with 600?

Wires to my motor are blue and white, guess that doesn't matter, now a matter of tracing them, I assume I take them off PCB, but which blue one as PCB has two blue ones connected to it, Sankyo didn't make it easy to access things on their machines.

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I've posted a pic of PCB and also what I suspect is the micro Switch, well it's board for the selector knob micro switch ( if that is what it is) as it is right behind the selector knob, as you can see from pic not easy to access, Question to those who may know, which wires connect to that board should I be testing with meter, there are one blue, white, Black and a redone with a plastic sleeve around it.

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TIA

Phil

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3318
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted July 12, 2014 05:19 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Phil... I don't have a 9V right now to test it... but just a guess... try attaching the battery to the 2 blue wires that are on the upper right board where the speed pots are. Looks like those wires might go back to the motor.

The battery test I did with my 800 was to verify if the motor was good since I couldn't get any other readings on my multimeter. Your motor appears to run...so even if attaching the battery works...you are still no further solving the stopping and starting problem.

One thing I noticed comparing your projector to my 2 Sankyo 600's is mine have a connector to change the voltage. Mine is connected to 117..but I could put it on 110. I see the voltages listed on your projector...but from your picture doesn't look like there are any connector pins.

Phil...you inspired me to get out my 600 again today to work on the problems. I say problems...plural...because it turned out to be more than one. I ended up replacing the belt. As you mentioned in my video the belt was slipping. Then the problem with the motor stopping and starting... I repeatedly turned the selector switch in all positions over and over again. It continued to stop and start...but progressively got better and finally ran continuously for over 45 minutes. I'm keeping my figures crossed the problem is fixed. I will continue to test it...but so far it looks like the problem may have been caused by some corrosion or dirt built up on the switch. Time will tell.

[ July 12, 2014, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Phil Mitchell
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 144
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted July 12, 2014 10:21 PM      Profile for Phil Mitchell   Email Phil Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for reply and suggestions Janice.

My motor is not running at all now, hence why I asked and found your video of interest. As I cleaned out where the wires go into motor with the springs and brushes.

I have a blue and white wire which you cannot see in picture going to motor it is on other side. I can see where blue wire goes, just need to track where white one goes, which I will today and then connect to a 9volt battery.

Before I go trying to get better access to what I suspect is a Board for a micro switch if that is what board is for, the smaller board under the main one see my pic. It is directly behind where selector knob is on front.

If motor doesn't run with 9 volt battery, then I can forget
about trying to get access to that smaller board.

I read in other thread about your 800, you got sent a manual, I wonder how similar 800 is to 600, looks similar to a degree.Does that manual mention any micro switches?

These Sankyo's are known to do this from research yesterday we're not only ones with a 600 Do a search of You Tube. You'll see what I mean.

Cheers
Phil

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David Fouracre
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 122
From: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted July 13, 2014 05:35 AM      Profile for David Fouracre   Email David Fouracre   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Guys,this may not relate to this machine, but I had a similar problem with my GS1200. This would run for a while, then stop or slow right down and problem was traced to the motor brushes. They were worn right down, and after taking advice I did NOT try filing down other makes of brush to fit. I found a company who manufacture brushes to sample. It seems that DC motor brushes have copper added to the brush compound to reduce armature wear and improve performance. Sent of the worn samples of both the main motor and the fan motor, and received perfect replacements with 3weeks.
This may help any machine with a DC motor.

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Phil Mitchell
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 144
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted July 13, 2014 06:23 AM      Profile for Phil Mitchell   Email Phil Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for suggestion David, first thing I checked were brushes, cleaned out any fluff or dirt and even replaced the springs that old them in, seem fine.

Janice and others as video I just put on You Tube shows as did your test Janice with your 800, I got motor to run using 9 volt battery. ( oh re your query about power changing knob, I suspect because I am in Australia and this was marketed to Asia Australia market it didn't need that part, no projector I have seen or have, has that ability. Must be something to do with the Wattage we use here. Which is more than US or Europe from memory)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnmu0WoA6gk&feature=youtu.be

I've also added 2 pictures of that smaller circuit board which is behind where selector knob is. there is a black part board is attached to I think, but I cannot see any actual micro switch, well maybe not, bit hard to tell.

The board where one can adjust speed using those pots I have a feeling maybe at play here, someone certainly has had it off as wrong screws have been used to put it back on as one can see, well missing a screw too. That has wires that seem to go to that smaller board, 2 blue, white, yellow brown and red. and a earth wire attached to a screw next to it.

Anyway now I can get better access to both these smaller boards I can meter test better

Thanks Phil

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The black plastic part behind board has some writing on it.

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3318
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted July 13, 2014 11:41 AM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the video Phil. Looks like your 600 has a more serious issue than mine. I updated my posting and my video to reflect the fix that seems to have rectified the motor stuttering on my machine. Hopefully it's not just a bandaid fix. You are doing a great job on trouble shooting and I will continue to monitor this thread to see if you can isolate the cause. It's better reading than a mystery novel [Smile]

http://youtu.be/WklC_En3xjo

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Phil Mitchell
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 144
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted July 14, 2014 04:26 AM      Profile for Phil Mitchell   Email Phil Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for reply and new video Janice,

To continue saga, I found out what is behind the small board where blue and white wires go to motor is.
It is a limit Switch, I just googled the writing on the black part, AM47008

http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-564543525-4-chaves-matsushita-m ade-in-japan-am47008-3-amperes-_JM

Makes sense that that would go first in case of power outage etc. instead of whole unit.

If I use my finger ( with power not connected of course), I can make it go click, click, which is what selector knob does.

I've worked out wiring too.

From Main PC board 2 blue wires, 1 red 1 yellow go to that smaller board in top right corner, (where the pots are to control speed) now when I multi meter tested their terminals I got 51 or so volts

When I tested terminals for the blue and white wire that goes to Motor, from board behind that switch, I only got 0.43volts, YES 0.43, Man that is not even 10% of the 9 volt battery. That was when I had selector knob in forward or reverse, when I put knob to stop, reading went to zero, so that is working, just not getting enough power for motor to run.

Now can this switch be replaced, ah, no idea, beyond my knowledge. Maybe someone on here knows. ( edit, I would assume I could rule out switch as problem if I can get safe enough access to the applicable blue and white wire, the ends that are solderd on back of board, although I'd assume that would be same as their terminals, I have not got that board out yet to check for any dry solder or issues. )

Maybe I should start a new thread about why a limit switch would be stopped board outputing enough power for motor to run.

Image of switch and where it is below. I turned image around in image editor so one could see writing.

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Cheers
Phil

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3318
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted July 14, 2014 03:20 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Phil...I did buy the Sankyo Stereo 800 Service Manual, however other than both projectors were made by Sankyo...they are totally different machines and the manual (which is basically a parts list) would not be of any value to working on the 600.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Phil Mitchell
Expert Film Handler

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From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted July 17, 2014 02:36 AM      Profile for Phil Mitchell   Email Phil Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks anyway Janice.

I believe I have sorted out issue/s.

As Some on here already posted Micro Switch ( limit Switch is really their name) could be problem and after getting access to them yesterday, straight away I noticed the one on right hand side of where they go ( the small circuit board in front of them has two screws which holds it and micro switches in place. One didn't have a red wire soldered to it. Other side the switch itself is not clicking and the wiring came off as soon as I moved it. Very avregage soldering even for 40 year old item. Makes us wonder if someone has work on here since. Anyway.

The way the 3 switches work are, when you put selector knob to forward or reverese or stop, a metal level will move one way or the other to open or close the applicable switch on the micro switch.

There is a 3rd one which is for Lamp and that's switch and wiring is fine, hence why Lamp comes on, in fact I can manually press that switch and make lamp come on. The wiring for two switches for motor have red and black wiring Power and ground one would assume and one has the Blue wire for motor and the other one has white wire for motor, again obviously the wires for motor one is for forward and the other one for resvese.

Switches are made by a company called MATSUSHITA. model no Am47008.

I have been trying to find them online, I have got close, I need one that can do 3a 125v 2a 250v. One on Ebay Australia was so close, except where switch is on that is in middle of it, not at the bottom. I have asked seller if he has one I need. If anyone on here know where to source these, please let me know.

Janice I suspect on your 600, the switch/s are starting to go maybe, not sure, but hopefully I have given you enough information on how to access them and check them.

I can't solder myself hopeless at it, having big fingers hands doesn't help, Mate of mine I am hoping can come over one day soon and resolder them. at least this way I know if any good, but I keep looking for replacements.

Picture of what one looks like below.

Cheers
Phil

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Phil Mitchell
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 144
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted October 15, 2014 03:56 AM      Profile for Phil Mitchell   Email Phil Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi all, Update on my Sankyo 600.

Thanks to all who tried to help and some did help me sort out this problem. After some careful checking of parts, I have got it back working, well except for a missing part I posted in other forum ( parts etc. wanted or sale) about to do with reverse micro switch.

Problem was the Speed control board ( this is first thing one should check if your Sankyo or Titan as they have same, if you still have lamp working and sound) as I called it, the one that is in top right corner as you look from rear.

Special mention to Pete Richards for checking the board I had, which was no good to repair, he kindly supplied me with a replacement.

If anyone wants any advice on how to check micro switches or wire solder to them or as I ended up doing putting terminal connectors to them, I certainly can help, or where to get them.

Been a big learning curve this job.

Thanks again all.

Phil

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3318
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted November 10, 2014 11:30 AM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Phil...Well it looks like the fix I had was indeed only temporary. The motor continues to start and stop intermittently again. From your last post it appears you found the issue in the speed board and solved the problem by replacing it...correct? Were you able to determine which component was failing on the board? What specific areas can I check with the mulitmeter?

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Phil Mitchell
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 144
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted November 10, 2014 06:47 PM      Profile for Phil Mitchell   Email Phil Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Janice, sorry your fix was only temporary.

Yes I did get a replacement from Pete Richards who is in NSW in Australia, he is on this forum.

But with old board, I have learnt it is a C to DC power converter board, friend of mine, her brother is an Electronics whiz.

He says and also so does a web site in Holland Van Dkye or something who sells parts for projectors like bulbs belts, he has a page about what are the most likely components to go bad in projectors on their boards and Capacitors are or appear to be number 1.

On board I posted pic of there are two of them, the Large Grey with Black writing and a smaller one they come in either Axial way, re Big one across board or can't think of other term, but just means they connect to board with legs down.

Sometimes it is obvious when one is bad, as it will look like it has burst or about to, but not always.
Each one has writing on it, two important numbers are the number of Micro Farads and how many volts it can take up to

On the large one on mine it is 1000 Micro Farads, the letters uf, is actually mf or stand for that anyway and the voltage is 63Volts, meaning this Cap will take voltage up to 63, now you can replace a bad one as long as it has the same MF reading and the volts going into board do not exceed what the Voltage of Cap is.

To test one, an average Multimeter probably won't do it unless it has the ability to measure Capantence. I've got a better MM on coming in mail soon (I hope)
The other things to check are the small diodes, this video on You Tube you may find helpful in understanding all of this more than maybe I can explain in typing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0Cy9wfrMFQ

I'll let you know what I find out when I get new Multi Meter.

Cheers
Phil

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3318
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted November 10, 2014 08:22 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just thought when Pete tested your old board that he may have isolated the bad component. I have a new meter that also measures capacitance... so I'll do a little testing myself when I have time.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Phil Mitchell
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 144
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted November 10, 2014 09:08 PM      Profile for Phil Mitchell   Email Phil Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
He tried to, but couldn't so sent me a replacement one that was working.

Okay great your Meter can do that, just make sure it can read up to the micro farads of the Cap, some MM only can read up to 200, the one I should get tomorrow has a auto range feature so it will know what to read. As I understand it.

You ever seen on a projector like Sankyo or Titan as they have the same board and set up inside. A White plastic part that is screwed to the hole above ac to dc board, you can see screw hole for it on my Sankyo pics. It has two blue wires that go from that same board to this white part. I'll post a pic later.

Cheers
Phil

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Phil Mitchell
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 144
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Aug 2013


 - posted January 01, 2015 03:06 AM      Profile for Phil Mitchell   Email Phil Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks to Pete on this forum and other's suggestions and my own investigations and learning.

My Sankyo 600 is back running.

Yey.

The way the speed control board is screwed onto Chasis etc to me is just asking for problems.

I would personnaly have 4 couplers not the two, to heat shield back board never touched PCB.

Happy 2015 people.

Phil

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