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Author Topic: eumig s938 question
Kevin Hassall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 438
From: Walsall, England
Registered: Dec 2010


 - posted August 13, 2014 10:26 AM      Profile for Kevin Hassall   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
why does the picture keep jumping up und down

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 13, 2014 10:37 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Eumig 938 is one of the best super 8 projectors ever made. It projects a rock steady picture with zero vertical dither. The fact that you have vertical instability could be due to the following:

1. The film you are projecting is not in fact super 8mm but standard 8mm which cannot be used.

2. The film is shrunk or dry and needs cleaning and lubricating.

3. The outer edge guide in the gate needs very slight adjustment to get the claw perfectly centered on the sprocket holes. There are two screws which clamp the outer edge guide in position. The inner edge guide is sprung and is not adjustable. The outer edge guide screws can be loosened slightly to very carefully reposition it to get the claw dead center on the sprocket holes.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Kevin Hassall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 438
From: Walsall, England
Registered: Dec 2010


 - posted August 13, 2014 10:59 AM      Profile for Kevin Hassall   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
hiya paul the films ive played all jumped . i tried them on my sankyo and they all work fine .

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted August 13, 2014 12:13 PM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As Paul said, this projector has rock steady pictures, therefore, if you are absolutely positive you are using Super/SIngle 8 film on this machine AND it is properly slit (sometimes prints have tolerances in width that not every projector is willing to absorb...), then I suspect this might be a problem of wear of the shutter cam/claw arm assembly. But perhaps it is possible to fine tune the innards so as to compensate for this (to some small degree, anyway).

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Maurizio

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 13, 2014 12:26 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
There is some slight adjustment able to be made for claw penetration on these machines but it doesn't give you much. Mine before now, has shown signs of jitter on some proven good S8 prints, but after adjustment/ lubriction, it performs much better nowadays. The jitter was only ever towards the end of reels, never at the beginning or middle of a reel.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Kevin Hassall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 438
From: Walsall, England
Registered: Dec 2010


 - posted August 13, 2014 01:25 PM      Profile for Kevin Hassall   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
ive never messed with the adjustment is it tricky ?

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 13, 2014 02:13 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
No Kevin, no more difficult than any other machine, they all work on the same basic principle of up and down and in and out movement based on a single revolution of the shutter shaft. It is just a case of working out where the adjustments are made and what adjuster is doing what to the claws movement within the cycle. Then set to the optimum position in accordance with the service manual recommendations.

Shutter claws, in my opinion, are not something to "mess" around with. they really should only be adjusted when absolutely necessary and when you have eliminated all other possibilities of jitter, for example worn cam/follower parts etc etc.

It is usual to have to set up from scratch anyhow when all parts have been removed and replaced as I have been forced to do in the past on my Bauer as it is pretty much impossible to guarantee the shutter shaft and bearing journals arrive back in exactly the same position to within a few thousanth's of an inch as to where they were previously in terms of their axial position.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Kevin Hassall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 438
From: Walsall, England
Registered: Dec 2010


 - posted August 13, 2014 04:08 PM      Profile for Kevin Hassall   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
thanks buddy will give it a try will let know how i get on arghhhh

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 525
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 13, 2014 10:17 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll bet Kevin's problem is that the feed reel he is using is pinching the edges of the film or it is just too heavy. Auto-takeup reels were notorious for this. If I'm remembering this machine correctly, there is up upper loop/sprocket, so ANY resistance off of the feed reel and it will cause crazy vertical shaking.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 13, 2014 11:12 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad, you are thinking of the Eumig 926, which has no upper feed sprocket (and those awful coaxial reels). The 938 has a 'proper' film path with sprockets above and below the gate, so the supply reel should be totally isolated from the claw.
I really would try adjusting the outer edge guide first. I had the same vertical jitter on my 938, I adjusted the edge guide a little, and all films have been rock steady ever since.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Kevin Hassall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 438
From: Walsall, England
Registered: Dec 2010


 - posted August 14, 2014 04:13 AM      Profile for Kevin Hassall   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
thanks guys for the imformation i will have a go i love this machine its brill

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Barry Attwood
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1411
From: Enfield, U.K.
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted August 14, 2014 05:07 AM      Profile for Barry Attwood   Email Barry Attwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kevin,

You could always send it to John White for a service, he's very good and reasonable with his prices, and he's a Eumig expert!

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 14, 2014 06:56 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Kevin, if you do decide to have a go yourself, follow Paul's sound advice first and only then adjust the claw if you feel it is definitely the root cause of the problem.

Also try lubricating the nylon cam first with Dow Corning Molycote grease (see Van Eck website) before just diving in on the shutter claw adjustment.

Also don't overlook the most obvious point on these machines in that the pressure plate can move in or out on them by loosening then re-tightening the red plastic retainer as it has an elongated slot in order to adjust. Try adjusting this first if you haven't already.

Generally, I find you can actually see it if it is a claw penetration problem by using the inch knob and looking very very closely at the action of the claw throughout one complete cycle.

As Barry advises, John, I believe is excellent on the mechanical side of things, so of course, that would be your best bet if you do not feel confident enough to solve the issue yourself.

[ August 14, 2014, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 14, 2014 12:49 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well Andrew has hit on the most obvious first thing to check, which I completely overlooked, namely make sure the gate is closed! [Big Grin] The reason being, as I have found, is that it is easy on this projector to think you have closed the gate, when in fact you have not. Sometimes, if you are not careful, the front part of the gate does not click fully in place behind the red plastic latch, or sometimes you just plain forget to close it and go ahead and remount the lamphouse cover. As Andrew points out, this red latch is adjustable foe and aft to provide some control of the gate pressure on the film.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Kevin Hassall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 438
From: Walsall, England
Registered: Dec 2010


 - posted August 14, 2014 12:50 PM      Profile for Kevin Hassall   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
thanks guys i'm gonna see if i can but if its too tricky for me i'll have to start saving up me pennys i'm having no luck with my projectors first the gs1200 when on me then the belt went on the st1200 and now this i hope the sankyo holds out or i'll scream

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