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Author Topic: slightly scatched films
Kevin Hassall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 438
From: Walsall, England
Registered: Dec 2010


 - posted September 12, 2014 07:06 AM      Profile for Kevin Hassall   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i know this is a daft question can u get anything to help with scratched films ?

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted September 12, 2014 07:07 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
What type of scratches Kevin? Emulsion or black wear lines?

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted September 12, 2014 12:53 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andrew has a good point, if they are very light lines, a good cleaning can get rid of much of that, and some of those great film cleaners can actually get in the "scratch" and also help alleviate the naughtiness of it.

... kind of like what happens with "wet gate" printing, when they take an old scratches print, have it pass through a wet gate as it is copied onto another piece of raw stock, the water gets into the scratches and can almost make it look like the scratches never existed. A very necessary element of film restoration!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Lee Panton
Film Handler

Posts: 75
From: UK
Registered: Sep 2014


 - posted September 12, 2014 01:51 PM      Profile for Lee Panton     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Filmguard can work wonders for black lines.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted September 12, 2014 01:56 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
It does indeed Lee and that is exactly what I would have recommended to Kevin had he replied, and of course, had the scratches not been emulsion, which as we all know, are there for life unfortunately.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Kevin Hassall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 438
From: Walsall, England
Registered: Dec 2010


 - posted September 12, 2014 02:08 PM      Profile for Kevin Hassall   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
hiya guys soz didnt get back sooner was at a funeral my best friend died and his funeral was today was too upset so sorry . i have a copy of scars of dracula in black and white but there lines and scratches i have cresta clean of classic home cinema will that help to reduce lines ? also a colour copy of genevive 600ft

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted September 12, 2014 02:24 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Firstly Kevin, I am very sorry to hear about your loss, you are fully understood for not bothering about an 8mm forum at a time like this for you.

As answered already by Lee and myself, nothing works like Filmguard on making black lines appear invisible. It is truly fantastic stuff at doing just this as well as "quietening" the film through it's transportation by the projector.
It's lubrication qualities are second to none when not over applied. A minimul amount is really all that is needed. As one of your your films is on B/W stock I feel it will satisfy your needs completely.
As for Genevieve, it depends if the scratches are green in colour or black wear type.

As anything in life that is very good, the only drawback is the price as it really isn't cheap at over £50 a bottle. However it does go an awful long way and does last a real long time as it comes in 1 1/2 pint bottles with a spray attachment.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Kevin Hassall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 438
From: Walsall, England
Registered: Dec 2010


 - posted September 13, 2014 03:28 AM      Profile for Kevin Hassall   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i will have to get some of paul foster ive used crestclean but it ay all that good its £8 a bottle ive bought 4 bottles of chc phil said its good but i can see any difference thanks andy and you other gentlemen for your help

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Lee Panton
Film Handler

Posts: 75
From: UK
Registered: Sep 2014


 - posted September 13, 2014 06:26 AM      Profile for Lee Panton     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
http://www.jackroe.com Here is a link where you can buy filmguard for immediate despatch.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted September 13, 2014 08:49 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Lee, but more expensive as a one off purchase.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted September 13, 2014 11:25 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For emulsion scratches that are not too bad, the 'water treatment' can be remarkably effective - I know as I've used it many times. The late Ivan Watson recommended it in 'Movie Maker' and caused me to try it. Light scratches genuinely 'disappear' and worse ones become less conspicuous. There are other threads here that mention it. Here's what I said on one of them:

"I use a slightly different approach which seems to work for me. I fill a bath with 3-4 inches of warm water, adding a water softener like washing up liquid. (Incidentally, I once treated a 50ft short in the sink of my hotel when in Blackpool for the convention, and as the water is soft there, it was no problem to use it without adding anything!) I take care to 'wind it out' in a way that reduces the risk of it getting tangled when I remove it. After about 20 mins I take one end and pull it through part of a folded towel, to remove excess water. I then it spread out on a non-fluffy cloth to dry in a warm room. The danger at this stage is that some film stocks stick together if emulsion makes contact with emulsion, so I move the film 2 or 3 times while it's drying, trying to ensure that this does not happen. After about an hour, it can be rewound, and I also apply Film Renew to clean off any dust and to lubricate the film."

A word of warning: it's equally applicable to 16mm (don't overdo the footage) but never use it on a Technicolor print - the colour will come off! Also be cautious with b/w films and don't leave them submerged for too long, as the occasional print seems to be prone to patches of emulsion coming off! I've never found that with 8mm.

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Adrian Winchester

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted September 13, 2014 11:48 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Very interesting Adrian, I had heard of such a treatment but have never put it to the test. What temperature would you estimate you had the water at on one of your successful tests. Also how long did you submerge the damaged section for, 20 minutes,is that correct?

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted September 14, 2014 01:27 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Be careful with very old films as the picture may vanish with water. I would never had imagine that but it happened with one of my films.

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Dominique

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted September 14, 2014 09:30 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andrew - I'm not too sure what the temperature has been in my case but I'd describe it as one that's pleasantly warm if you put your hand in, without being uncomfortably hot. I don't think it's too critical but I'd fear that a temperature that's very hot could cause damage. Cooler water wouldn't do any harm but it may be less likely to have the 'healing' effect on the emulsion. The time is also a rough guess - 10 or even 5 minutes might be just as effective but I'm not sure. But if you put a whole 400' in, the end you take out first will come out a few minutes before the other end! It's not something you can rush.

If anyone is in doubt about any film, try a test with part of a leader. If you closely examine this afterwards, you'll see a before and after difference. The two or three films I've had with emulsion that has become fragile while wet have been 16mm b/w prints from around the 1960s but I haven't used it on any older ones.

[ September 15, 2014, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

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Adrian Winchester

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010


 - posted September 14, 2014 10:47 PM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well if they are scratched a lot, that means they have an itch. I would try calamine lotion like with poison ivy. [Eek!]

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Kevin Hassall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 438
From: Walsall, England
Registered: Dec 2010


 - posted September 15, 2014 03:21 AM      Profile for Kevin Hassall   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
ha ha i never thought about using lotion [Razz]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted September 15, 2014 09:20 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for that in depth instruction Adrian, I shall give it a go on some leader to see if I can achieve your successful results

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted September 15, 2014 12:08 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
HAH! Good one, Passquale!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted September 15, 2014 03:04 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Oh please Osi. Do tell me that is not the first time you have read Pasquales old gag. Just read old St1200 threads. It pops up regularly. Please don't encourage those old chestnuts being recirculated anymore than they do already.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 15, 2014 05:00 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm a fan of old chestnuts......

Kevin, let us know how it turns out.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted September 15, 2014 05:06 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Easily amused Doug, That's all I can say!!

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Kevin Hassall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 438
From: Walsall, England
Registered: Dec 2010


 - posted September 16, 2014 11:29 AM      Profile for Kevin Hassall   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
was gonna use baby wipes they are soft to the skin ha ha

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted September 16, 2014 11:34 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with Doug ... the old jokes are sometimes the best, no matter how often you've heard them ...

back on topic ...

Have you had any luck with the lessoning of the scratches? An update?

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted September 16, 2014 04:37 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I had a go today following the instructions Aidrian provided on a small section of damaged Lpp film. It did nothing for me. Scratch just as was and made the rest of the image streaky. Left the section of film 2 hours to thoroughly dry then retreated the section of film with filmguard before projecting. I dont think I will be doing it again.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Kevin Hassall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 438
From: Walsall, England
Registered: Dec 2010


 - posted September 16, 2014 04:47 PM      Profile for Kevin Hassall   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
was gonna use baby wipes they are soft to the skin ha ha

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