8mm Forum: Baking Soda Vs. Vinegar

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Topic: Baking Soda Vs. Vinegar

Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 11, 2015 12:04 PM

Trying it out for 6 days on 2 separate prints, this seems to work, the smell has lowered itself - Still experimenting further - It's so stupid, it's positively brilliant, no accolades yet - Shorty

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted June 11, 2015 01:14 PM

Shorty, this will certainly help with the smell but won't stop the process of deterioration, of which the smell is just a side effect.
But, hey, good call, baking soda is certainly cheaper than molecular sleeves. [Smile]

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013

posted June 11, 2015 04:12 PM

I suggested this a couple of months back in Small Format Film Forum; didn't get much interest. When working in the car industry in the 70s I saw bicarbonate of Soda used to neutralise a spillage of car battery acid; that's what gave me the idea. I wrote to the BFI, got an automated reply that said I would receive a personal reply in about 7 days; nothing from them. I understand there are some papers you can get, similar to the litmus test. Would be interesting to see a comparison before and after. It may not be a cure, but it could slow down the deterioration.

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 12, 2015 06:07 AM

I used baking soda on the inside of the cardboard boxes (this itself an oxide releaser), as well as the film itself - After 6 days the smell did go away mostly, I then cleaned the film off, rewound it lightly (I also changed reels, as plastic through the years will cause problems) - I also had a similar result while keeping another print with box in a cold area - Tend to find cold storage helps, if this can be done on a regular basis, the emulsion will remain stable - Metal cans and reels is another composition - Testing further - Shorty

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 14, 2015 06:39 AM

After 9 days, 2 of the prints are about as normal as can be, considering the age of film regardless, however to no degree as before with the strong odor - The other two are about the same, will see one more days' trial

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 16, 2015 06:45 AM

From what my chemist friend says, baking soda will work on the gas being emitted from the film, but will not do anything about the chemical reactions going on IN the film itself. Yes the smell can be erased, but the disease is still there. He says cold storage slows down almost any reaction, but once the reaction begins, the film has the "disease", but just doesn't show as many symptoms detected by our eyes or noses.

I wish I had a cold storage building to store films in...it would be great.
Shorty, will see you around the 4th in D.C.

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 16, 2015 06:59 AM

If the chemical decomposition is inheirent within acetate, one could say 'What's the point of maintaining these if they will eventually turn bad?' - There are many prints out there, 98% don't turn VS (oddly enough), the rest do - Most of mine are still okay, but I have a climate-controlled area for them and I clean them bi-annually - Cardboard boxes will de-oxidize adding to the culprit, and yet most of mine in original boxes are still fine, color or B&W - Then I heard the magnetic soundstripe might be a problem towards the print - If this is the case, then there's virtually nothing we can do right now, unless we hear from Europe on a more scientific level from leading archives - Then there is the on-going thought of metal or plastic cans, metal or plastic reels and the sustaining temperatures for these - True, the 4 prints I had have recovered from the smell, as I mentioned will experiment further along the reactions of cardboard and metal to both baking soda, sieves, warm water solution and the patience of an oyster - Shorty - Oh yes, Washington, and we'll see how the Library of Congress takes care of its own

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