8mm Forum: Value of Laurel and Hardy Films

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Topic: Value of Laurel and Hardy Films

Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015

posted July 01, 2015 04:24 PM

What I don't quite understand is what happened with, or what is wrong with, the negatives/prints used to make the RHI video masters back in the '80s/'90s? Granted, the video technology was inferior to what we have today, but they obviously had fantastic film elements to work with.

Also curious who funds the HD transfers of those relatively obscure (non-L&H) titles that are shown on TCM?

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted July 01, 2015 06:36 PM

Joseph,

This link defines the change of hands between RHI and Hallmark.

The L&H Show was not perfect because Way Out West was edited.

RHI & Hallmark

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015

posted July 01, 2015 07:34 PM

Thanks for the link, Michael.

On the L&H Show they even edited some shorts and I think all of the features. But when they started showing them just a few years later on AMC (RHI versions), they were unedited. Some titles, like COME CLEAN, ANY OLD PORT, and THEY GO BOOM, were never shown. But they did show the 3rd reel of LAUGHING GRAVY.

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Timothy Ramzyk
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 220
From: Milwaukee,WI,USA
Registered: Nov 2006

posted July 03, 2015 12:43 AM

quote:
What I don't quite understand is what happened with, or what is wrong with, the negatives/prints used to make the RHI video masters back in the '80s/'90s? Granted, the video technology was inferior to what we have today, but they obviously had fantastic film elements to work with.

Also curious who funds the HD transfers of those relatively obscure (non-L&H) titles that are shown on TCM?

Good question. I've heard rumors about Hallmark dumping negs because nitrate-film storage was never part of their agenda, and that they bought the Our Gang and L&H stuff more for merchandising than restoration and video release. Don't know how much of that is true.

Generally speaking all the major studios are working their way through their catalogs making HD masters for TV syndication packages and streaming/download use. When we're luck they issue a Blu-ray or license to third party to do so.
Major players like Warner and Universal own not only their own catalogs, but those they've absorbed over the years. Sadly their acquired holdings tend to be in a more compromised state. For instance Universal owns most pre-60's Paramount, and Warner owns titles produced by MGM and RKO. The older Paramount, and especially RKO stuff hasn't been getting a lot of HD transfers, because most would require major restoration and in some cases first generation originals no longer exist.

The exception is the MGM titles which were well cared for under Ted Turner's watch. The lion's share of what you see broadcast in HD on Turner are Warner Brothers and MGM titles that Warner has transferred. However, not all films shown on TCM HD are truly HD transfers, they are simply up-converted SD.

quote:
The Metropolis 9-5 tinted print is the best on the gauge which sells for about £65 ish usually, runs for about 28 minutes.
It is also on Blu-Ray if discs are your bag at about 150 minutes and £12 looking rather splendid. Wait a bit and it will be on Ultra Blu-Ray before long.

The Collectors Club 8mm release is also worth having if you want a longer run than the 9-5 print. [Cool]

That 150 minute version is revelatory. I had previously only seen my Griggs Moviedrome Super 8, 100 minute print and the Kino 120 minute DVD. Truthfully, I wasn't sure a METROPOLIS that ran another half hour was going to be a better METROPOLIS, but the restored footage really had some interesting stuff in it. I was fortunate enough to see a 35mm screening with live orchestration (which never hurts).

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted July 03, 2015 04:56 PM

The L&H library on Turner Classic Movies cable network, utilizes the Film Classics prints as their source. The Film Classic title on Chickens Come Home is titled: Chicken Come Home.
Host Robert Osborne introduced the movie as Chickens Come Home, and the film started with the title completely cut when broadcasted. The Film Classic plaque jump cut to the secondary players as James Finlayson and Thelma Todd.

Turner also used F.C. material for Another Fine Mess, and the right side of the screen is filled with emulsion and base scratches.

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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015

posted July 03, 2015 07:36 PM

Some FC prints I've seen are stunning, despite the typos on the main titles of some. (MAN O'WAR is another example.) I'm surprised that TCM is using them, however. The few that I saw several years ago on TCM had original titles.

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted July 03, 2015 09:31 PM

Joseph,

It's good to know that Turner has been using more original titles.
I cannot remember when I watched those two 3 reelers.

Turner uses F.C. prints. on the Charley Chase, Todd/Pitts, Todd/Kelly shorts.

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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015

posted July 05, 2015 04:55 PM

I think it depends on the particular film -- I've seen both original and FC titles for Chase and Todd. I'd have to check my tapes for specifics -- all recorded within the last 10 years. I haven't recorded the L&Hs since I have them all on film and had already recorded them from AMC way back when.

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David Guest
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1704
From: Lancashire, UK
Registered: Oct 2011

posted July 05, 2015 05:03 PM

I have one on 16mm and never seen another one in fact never seen one on 8mm its called the big noise and its a cracking print

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015

posted July 05, 2015 07:58 PM

David,

THE BIG NOISE was released in 8mm in digest form with a soundtrack record by Americom. Those Americom prints are just "OK".

What you have is probably a 16mm original issued by National Telefilm Associates or Seven Arts-Associated.

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

posted June 03, 2016 03:52 PM

What always impresses me about our Vlad is that not only are his prices insane but he goes to great lengths to describe how the film might be scratched, buckled, etc without any idea that this may affect the price.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16mm-FILM-SOCIAL-HISTORY-GERMANY-HOME-MOVIES-SILENT-250FT-/222119842959?hash=item33b75fd48f:g:dBAAAOSwBLlU51eE

What killed me was on this one where he says 'no box'. Gee, you'd think he didn't want to sell the things.

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015

posted June 05, 2016 07:45 PM

What does this have to do with Laurel and Hardy?
[Confused]

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Thomas Smith
Master Film Handler

Posts: 313
From: Barking, Essex, UK
Registered: Dec 2009

posted June 07, 2016 09:02 AM

Hello Joseph I have a 3X400ft release of The Big Noise
Released in Holland it has dutch subtitles but English
Soundtrack not a bad print, well worth looking out
For if your a laurel and hardy fan

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t.smith

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