8mm Forum: Elmo ST-1200 Delay in Motor Starting

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Topic: Elmo ST-1200 Delay in Motor Starting

Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted June 27, 2015 04:25 PM

Barry Fritz posted:

quote:
I like Zoom turbine oil. Penetrates well and withstands high temps. It has a long flexible retractable nozzle for reaching hard to get at areas. It is available at Ace Hardware stores and online. Most projector repairmen do not recommend 3 in 1 oil.

Thanks Barry for the recommendation. If this oil is not considered the same as 3-in-1 Oil then projector repair individuals out there will be happy. I ordered a bottle of Zoom Spout Turbine Oil...and the applicator alone is worth it. I don't know how good the oil is...but the spout tube extends to allow more precision oiling in very tight areas...super design.

[ June 27, 2015, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted June 27, 2015 06:49 PM

Janice, I agree the spout is worth the price alone. Zoom oil is praised by many in the 16mm community. That is where I first learned of it.

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014

posted September 30, 2015 08:51 PM

@Frank,
My ST1200HD seems to have failed the sound test you posted.
What should I try next?
I always felt the sound was okay to date but maybe it could be better, so now I want to know why my flywheel is not turning in the #1 position?

I have started lubing using the superlube that i just picked up from home depot online. Great stuff! I would like to get the zoom oil next as i can see that rotor shaft is going to be brutal to try to hit with my unstable hands(i was never good at the game operation)...
Thanx,
Matt
ps: on my model, the shutter-wheel does NOT have the rubber.
pss: Now I a thinking i hear some sound warble [Frown]

Could this because of no rubber on shutter-wheel? Even when playing i think i heard some warbling of the sound...

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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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frank arnstein
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 534
From: Gold Coast. Australia
Registered: Jan 2005

posted October 04, 2015 04:58 AM

replying to Matt,,

as I stated a few posts back, and as Tom has also told us previously,

"if the slightest bit of oil gets onto the small rubber roller that drives the flywheel shaft, then the friction is lost and it wont work again till its sprayed with evaporative cleaner then dries clean and bone dry".

So spray the flywheel shaft and rubber driving roller with iso-propyl or other suitable evaporating spray, where they press against each other, till they are flushed clean and then make sure they are bone dry before retesting its operation. Don't inhale the fumes or ignite them accidently.

Regarding the fact you are running without a shutter belt... I am doing the same with mine and am perfectly happy with the sound result. I believe they run smoother, quieter and with less vibration if there's no shutter belt.
If you think yours still has warbling sound then try adding a bit more spring pressure to the shutterwheel as Janice did, and see if that's all it needs to drive smoothly without slip. Also clean the sound head if you haven't done that yet.

Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.

dogtor frankarnstein [Smile]

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 04, 2015 06:47 AM

Something I noticed after I restored my shutter surface was this slight ringing sound that I'm pretty sure was the wheel vibrating is now gone. There was also a rumbling sound which was probably the roller.

It also seems to me the contact between the roller and shutter wheel is more reliable now. I had a lot more trouble with slippage before.

The machine is actually much, much better these days, but then again I made another major fix (motor pulley) at the same time so It's not all because of the shutter belt!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014

posted October 04, 2015 02:32 PM

Thanx very much for replying Frank. My son and I are working on it right now!
One thing that is puzzling me is that I do not see any way that the flywheel would turn...that is, while in position 2, with no film, the roller(which has now been cleaned) does not spin, nor do i see the shaft moving..so I am puzzled at what drives the flywheel ultimately...
After cleaning, we are still not seeing the flywheel spin, but know we must be getting close to homing in on the problem and thank you very much in the meanwhile for your help! We will continuing on this and perhaps we will self discover the issue in the meantime....
Matt

UPDATE: My 12 year old son to the rescue!!! This where we fathers start to appreciate our great inheritance in offspring...especially as eyes fail and others are needed! Joel has determined that I have observed and cleaned the wrong rubber [Smile]

I was at the front of the machine where the roller at the endmost of the shaft is, but he has pointed out that there is indeed another roller, and looking at it it is indeed dirty!!!
I will report back with good news shortly i am certain!

*Steve, show this pic to your son so he knows he has a friend in super 8's!!!

[ October 04, 2015, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Mathew James ]

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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted October 04, 2015 02:50 PM

The rapid start up mechanism on these rarely works for very long, it required 100% friction and any little bit of lube of any kind near it is enough to stop it working.
The lazy way out is to simply have a good long leader for your movies, 1/ to obviously protect the beginning of the film but it also gets that flywheel up to speed by the time film starts.
Quite often the first few seconds of a film has awful wobbly sound until the flywheel picks up speed.
I am going to upload the two pages from the service book, see what you make of this, it looks quite complex for such a simple idea. But it may help.

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted October 04, 2015 04:17 PM

Thanks for posting the illustrations Tom...very helpful!

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014

posted October 04, 2015 04:24 PM

Extremely helpful! Thanx for posting these Tom.
SUCCESS!! My flywheel, after cleaning the roller, is now spinning without film.... Thanx so much team!!!
Matt

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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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