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Author Topic: Elmo K110SM_Updated Mar31
Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted June 24, 2015 03:15 PM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi All,
As I mention in another thread, today I brought home an K110SM that is my father in law's projector. It has been somewhat buried the last several months after a move, but in GREAT shape.
Hardly used really.
As expected from how long it hasn't been used, the motor belt was broken, but thankfully, not the dreaded black goo! Rather, it had these little reddish-tanned specks on it..probably some sort of rubber breakdown.
I was surprised however that the take up belt looks MINT. I say looks, because i suspect that it would probably break as well given enough time, it is so old now.... I will be replacing both unless someone can confirm that the take-up belt is another material that indeed lasts forever...
I will try to post some pics of this to show how good condition it is otherwise.
Any info or pointers before I get too far into this is always appreciated!!!
Cheers,
Matt

EDIT: Wow, The Belt prices on these are insane!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-8-Elmo-K- 110SM-K-120SM-Projector-Belts-2-Belt-Set-/251953716274?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa99c9c32
[Smile]
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PSS: If anyone knows the O.D.(outside diameter) of the motor belt, please let me know. I may try an o-ring, if i know the size...I would measure the belt in pic#1 above, but there was some broken bits as well and I'd rather be accurate....

[ June 24, 2015, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: Mathew James ]

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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1592
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 24, 2015 06:33 PM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Matt,
If you think $31.67 shipped for a new 2 belt set is "insane", maybe you had better face reality. This hobby isn't cheap [Wink]
I think the price is reasonable for the correct replacement belts. Using O-Rings or rubber bands doesn't do justice to the machine in my opinion...

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Joe Taffis

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted June 24, 2015 10:57 PM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
He he...
We'll, as much as I love my father in law....I think he would agree with me that $41.68 Canadian(at todays current rate is certainly 'high' for 2 pieces of rubber...that is my opinion only. I sure hope fixing a relatives projector does not constitute a hobby.... I should be rewarded for taking in an abandoned Elmo(I just love elmo's!) and trying to resuscitate the poor lonely thing:) Anyways, please don't fault me for trying to do it on the cheap. He will appreciate the repair best if he knows I didn't spend any money on it...so I can't even tell him the price [Smile]
Cheers,
Matt

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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Thijs de Kort
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: Tilburg, Netherlands
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted June 25, 2015 05:29 AM      Profile for Thijs de Kort   Email Thijs de Kort   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Mathew,
As already told the prices for belts are insanely high but i've found a place that is cheaper then e-bay including shipping costs
Elmo K 110 Belt
After shipping it would be about 32 canadian dollars if im not mistaken.
(Payment is in euro's)
Hope this helps you a bit

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 25, 2015 05:44 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
-depends on how you look at it!

Since without the belts the machine is basically a rock with a handle on top, the $41.68 makes a working projector out of something only good for a boat anchor or a door stop.

Would you pay $41.68 for this machine fully operational if you didn't have one at all?

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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frank arnstein
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 534
From: Gold Coast. Australia
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted June 25, 2015 06:19 AM      Profile for frank arnstein   Author's Homepage   Email frank arnstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Matt

If you don't want to overcapitalise on this projector of yours, then you don't have to.

The long toothed belt on these doesn't ever wear out so unless its too loose you can leave that on. The motor belt will be fine with a rubber o ring to drive it. Use one that's as loose as you can without it slipping.

The real Achilles heel of these K110SM is the delivery spindle.
It often cracks then breaks right off. Nearly every example of these will be at risk and most will already be cracked without their owners knowing.

Luckily for us all, Edwin van Eck has told me that they are already working on printing out this vital part. It will be available soon.

dogtor frankarnstein [Smile] [Wink]

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted June 25, 2015 09:06 AM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi All,
I think if the projector was 'officially' given to me to keep...I would then probably spend to have it fixed the way I would like it.
I don't feel I've spared any expense on the ST180 an St1200 I personally own, although I still feel the belt prices were steep. I think i paid only 12-14$ each for the 3 belts on the ST1200,and that was after trying to glue a belt(and that didn't hold).
I am always a 'try to repair first before purchasing new parts' type of person...a Macgyver really [Smile]

@Steve, It is always a possibility that I will inherit this machine at some point, but I don't want to assume..I just want to get it working for him, because otherwise, it will never be repaired most likely. If it were my own machine, then I probably would repair it...but I feel I would still try to get the rubber cheaper... [Smile]
I have about 4 or 5 8mm films I have obtained that I have never watched and would like to because the bulb went on the B&H 8mm projector and I have never replaced it(i refuse to spend $70+, the machine itself is not worth that).
@Frank, Thanx so much for this info! You have just saved me at least half and for that I am very grateful. Like I say, the toothed belt looks MINT, so I leave it be in hopes it may last and just replace the motor belt....and I will be looking closely at the delivery spindle and will let my father in law know we need to watch out that it may/will break! It is fantastic we have someone recreating some of these parts.
Thijs, thanx for the link as well! Always happy to save where possible!
Has anyone had experience with the shipping time from the Netherlands to US/Canada areas? Just curious as to that turnaround. It normally takes about 2 - 2 1/2 weeks just from the US to here when i buy from California area(that is with the lowest shipping price included with the ebay auction)....
Cheers,
Matt
PS: One last question... Does anyone know if the ST180 bulbs would work in this machine? I am just curious if the bulb is much different. Both are 100W with the same prongs i think.... I ask because i have a couple 100W bulbs here for my ST180 and should the bulb on the K110SM go, could i use the st180 bulb?

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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Thijs de Kort
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: Tilburg, Netherlands
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted June 25, 2015 09:27 AM      Profile for Thijs de Kort   Email Thijs de Kort   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Mathew,
I believe that if both of the lightbulbs are 12 v 100 w EFP lamps there shouldnt be a problem with switching them.
As far as i know the K110 and the ST180 use the same bulbs, as a last place to look is if the lamp sockets are the same, if they are the same then they are interchange-able.
Hope you can get the Elmo working now.
Thijs

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 25, 2015 09:33 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Apparently this machine used our Old Friend the EFP. This is the same as all the STs except ST-1200s.

I always like finding a machine uses lamps like these: they are common and cheap!

Belts are a little like motor oil: if they fail to do their job they can cause a lot of misery. If the motor belt breaks and the machine stops with the lamp lit, whatever film is in the gate is now toast. If the takeup belt breaks near the beginning of the reel, now you are liable to find a couple of hundred feet of film on the floor.

I think it's cool your father in law has a projector. Is he still interested?

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted June 25, 2015 09:53 AM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, this is FANTASTIC news! There is nothing better to me than the fact I can share these bulbs in 2 machines. Splendid!

I am not sure if my father in law is still interested.
The story is that about a year or so ago, our family was 'fleamarketing' as we love to do. Here in Hamilton where i live is a good centralized spot to hit several fleamarkets within an hour drive...so one day I stumbled on a big pile of Super 8's, mostly L&H and some lil Rascals etc... I paid $8 per film, including for blockheads 3 reeler...This started it for me...I had just recently been trying to watch the old super 8's of us as kids...so never knew actually that 'real' movies existed on this earlier format....
Of course, once i started, there was no stopping...I had the whole family saturated with super 8 talk and I was addicted...some here may be able to relate- he he:)
I started trying to find old movies from family, offering to repair and splice things, anything really....
My father in law was already packed when this happened to move from Burlington to Hamilton, and to be honest, I have bugged him endlessly to eventually find the goods, which he finally just did buried under several boxes. I need to speak with him again soon///My wife says she kinda remembers another projector ,and i found that Copal CP77 manual, so I am wondering if he may have that somewhere too....
I think that once this one is working again, I may get him re-interested, but only from a 'home movie' point of view. I cannot see him interested beyond that. I tried showing a L&H once when they were over but they talked right through it(it was a sound film too) [Smile]
One good thing is that he always filmed on pretty good colour film. I can see the major difference between his home movies and our own families which have faded in several places by now. I know it may sound nosey, but I was really interested to see my wifes family before I knew them, especially my wife as a baby to compare to our own 3 kids. Such fun times!
Cheers,
Matt

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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted February 10, 2016 09:27 PM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi All,
Well, I was able to play some more with this machine this evening and, well, I chewed a film a little bit....
It is happening i believe because the take-up is not pulling fast enough to receive the film coming at it.
Here is a pic of the problem area where i can see the spot where the belt connects spinning very fast, and yet the lower yellow arrow area is jumping.
Can someone please let me know what i should do to trouble shoot and fix this issue!
Thanx in advance.
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Here is a quick vid i took. I don't have a youtube account so i hope you can view this on your computer(s).
http://www.filedropper.com/k110smskipping1

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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010


 - posted February 10, 2016 09:47 PM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio   Email Pasquale DAlessio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Matt

The clutch is slipping. loosen the small allen screw and push the steel ring to compress the spring a little more. Re-tighten the allen screw and test. That should do it.

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted February 11, 2016 06:58 AM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Pat,
Thanx very much for the advice, which I tried last evening.

It is weird. No matter how loose or tight i try setting the spring, it is still slipping.
In testing, I even tried putting it overtight(spring compressed good) and it still slipped.
Next, i removed the two front screws to the take up arm and looked at the gears under there, and they looked great and moved well.

After watching some more videos and giving this more thought, i think it must be the drive belt slipping. I replaced the main belt but not this drive belt as it seemed ok, but it may be consider loose so i think i should try that before proceeding...

[ February 11, 2016, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Mathew James ]

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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Edwin van Eck
Master Film Handler

Posts: 312
From: Tilburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2015


 - posted February 14, 2016 02:35 AM      Profile for Edwin van Eck   Author's Homepage   Email Edwin van Eck   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One advice is to check the reel holders. These are the achilles heel of these fine projectors. If there is a crack in it, it will disrupt the smooth running.

Yesterday I repaired an Elmo K110 SM projector where there was a crack in a supply reel holder. This caused the projector not being able to rewind. Replacing this part solved the problem. See:
http://van-eck.net/itable.php?lang=en&size=0&cat=film&merk=52&type=K-110%20SM
for an instruction video how to replace these parts.

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Edwin van Eck
Van Eck Video Services

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted February 16, 2016 08:30 AM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanx Edwin!
I took apart the arm shaft and checked the gears, but failed to go into the reel holder. I will try that next!
I have ordered a new belt that drives the reels 'just-in-case' the belt is loose enough, but perhaps it is indeed a cracked reel holder.
Stay tuned!!!

EDIT- Had a chance to take apart and clean both arms and gears. I have placed pics here for others with similar issues.

Edwin, my Supply Side Reel Holder has cracks in it(3 in total, where the allen key points are for 2)!!! This must be the issue i am thinking! I cannot tell if this side is slipping as my problem is on the take up side, but i think they are attached in movement by the belt which drives both reel holders.
Featured here is the Dreaded Pink Goop(aka old lubricant to be replaced with new goop- aka Superlube).
This is the take up arm reel-
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Ahhh...Nice and clean...That's better! Thanx Steve for pointing me to this great goop!
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You want to sing 'Supergoop Supergoop' while putting this on sung to the tune of 'Super Freak Super freak'(Rick James) It helps pass the time...
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Load Arm Side Gears-
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Cracked Reel Holder!!!
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[ February 16, 2016, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Mathew James ]

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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted February 25, 2016 11:52 AM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I need the Dogtor!!!

Well, the new belt came in today.
unfortunately, the issue is not the belt, so that is now ruled out.
I had the parts right down looking at the cork and everything. I think the issue must be deeper.
The pic above of the cracked reel holder is on the other side and does not affect this issue as far as i can see.
Can some one tell me more on what the 'clutch' does. I read some references to a clutch, but i can't find any info on it. I just want to see whether it may be clutch related or not.
Any help is appreciated.Thanx.
New Top Belt
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Before I cleaned all the parts-btw, that little pin that goes into the shaft is a buggar to work with. I used a long needle nose pliers to take out the pin and put it back in, in order to remove cork.
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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Edwin van Eck
Master Film Handler

Posts: 312
From: Tilburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2015


 - posted February 25, 2016 12:23 PM      Profile for Edwin van Eck   Author's Homepage   Email Edwin van Eck   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
99% sure that the cracked reel holder is the problem.
We have repaired this issue many times.

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Edwin van Eck
Van Eck Video Services

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted February 25, 2016 02:01 PM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanx Edwin. I trust your knowledge on this.
It is just surprising to me that the other side could affect it, but it must be the reel holder, like you say.
Just ordered the part now. Thanx very much!!!
Matt

[ February 25, 2016, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: Mathew James ]

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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Edwin van Eck
Master Film Handler

Posts: 312
From: Tilburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2015


 - posted February 26, 2016 06:11 AM      Profile for Edwin van Eck   Author's Homepage   Email Edwin van Eck   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Mathew,

Thanks. We shill ship the spare part soon. Let us know when you have have fixed it. See the instruction video for how to replace this part at: http://www.van-eck.net/itable.php?lang=en&size=0&cat=film&merk=52&type=K-110%20SM

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Edwin van Eck
Van Eck Video Services

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted February 26, 2016 08:40 AM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanx Edwin!
We are so fortunate to have someone who can manufacture some of these broken parts for us!!!
I will update this thread once I have repaired the unit, with new pics. Thanx very much.

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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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frank arnstein
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 534
From: Gold Coast. Australia
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted February 29, 2016 06:56 AM      Profile for frank arnstein   Author's Homepage   Email frank arnstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Matt,

Those cracks you have shown on the front spindle are not the problem. They crack inside when they break, not like yours.
So reassemble that part and get to the rear clutch as the problem is there.

To make the rear clutch operate properly again, glue the back-side of the cork to the side of the inner driven white plastic pulley. That will keep the cork from slipping around and around without driving anything.
Now you can lightly lube the outer cork face and then re assemble the spring loaded pressure ring. Now the adjustment will work properly when you adjust the clutch spring tension.

Try doing that and see what happens.

dogtor frankarnstein. [Wink] [Smile]

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At Projector Heaven the Focus is always on Detail.

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[o:/o]<|=- dogtor@projectorheaven.com.au
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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted February 29, 2016 08:38 AM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank,
Thanxs so VERY much!!!! This makes complete sense!
I just glued the cork(plastic side) and am awaiting results and will report the good new shortly I am confident!

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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted March 02, 2016 09:02 AM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
update- After working on this for a couple more days(taking longer than i imagined it might but i now know this part of the machine inside-out I am certain it is the cork.
I need a new cork. Where does one get cork for these i wonder?
The cork is too slippery now. Even with the spring tightened immensely it still slips against friction surface causing a jumping motion. It is certainly better, but still problematic.
I am also wondering it some of this problem is caused by a slightly warped take up reel. I have made it such that it doesn't wobble as much(until i can source a new one) but i think i need a new cork as well.

Interestingly, i don't see a cork on the supply side at all. Is there supposed to be one. I don't see any issues reversing at all so i am wondering why this cork side is so bad.
Thanx for the help!!! [Smile]

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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 02, 2016 09:49 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
If you cannot find cork, there is a gasket material used in engineering known as neoktex that will work better. It is more durable than cork but shares the same frictional qualities.
It comes in sheet form of various thicknesses and using a circular punch set, you can manufacture as many friction washers as you like then Matthew.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted March 02, 2016 08:07 PM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That is a good idea Andrew!
It will be a matter of finding something with proper friction.
This stuff looks interesting as well-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gasket-Paper-0-8mm-Thick-50cm-x-50cm-Sheet-Heavy-Duty-Not-Cork-Cut-To-Size-/260962176817

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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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