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Author Topic: Changing cxl/cxr bulb to LED using kit
Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted July 07, 2015 04:18 PM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If they need DC a bridge rectifier diode array is very small and would fit into all projectorsas the current drain would be very small so a high power one wouldn't be needed, and very easy to wire in the line to lamp.
GU10 mains voltage LEDs are common and I use a 12v one off an electronic transformer (not an LED driver but one for halogen lamps). In fact I tried an 12v LED in a Eumig S905 using them. As I only had a 20 LED 1.9W lamp the results were not good enough for projection as very little light went through the gate. It would do for direct telecine transfer I suspect.

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Myron Baron
Film Handler

Posts: 49
From: Easton, Pa 18045
Registered: Jan 2008


 - posted July 07, 2015 05:19 PM      Profile for Myron Baron   Author's Homepage   Email Myron Baron   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Terry
Right now I am only doing the cxl/cxr for 8mm projectors, when I start selling these, then I will do another projector, there are so many out there, it would be impossible to do the LED for all of them.
Myron

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted July 08, 2015 02:00 AM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Myron
Yes I understand. It will be a monumental task to accommodate everyone's demands, but good luck in your venture. I fear though, as Andy and Dom have mooted , that most people would much prefer not to have an external power supply. Maybe in time someone will produce LED's that run off AC power. That would make matters so much easier.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted July 08, 2015 03:20 AM      Profile for Mark Todd     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great Stuff Myron, and the sqaure cree LED chips offer some great future high lightoutput possibilities.

Good luck etc and thank you.

Best mark.

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Steve Carter
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: Apr 2015


 - posted July 08, 2015 04:27 PM      Profile for Steve Carter     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Myron I think something in this style maybe...
Spot LED

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Myron Baron
Film Handler

Posts: 49
From: Easton, Pa 18045
Registered: Jan 2008


 - posted July 09, 2015 07:20 AM      Profile for Myron Baron   Author's Homepage   Email Myron Baron   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, that is a fine idea, with some one who has all the manufacturing capabilities, that requires quite a bit of capital, I'm not in that position. I go on the internet web sites and I find quite a lot of how to build it, infact their is a guy named Vortash on google plus, he shows you hot to do it in a video, (also on YouTube) check it out, but Vortash is an electrical engineer and has more technical know how than I do, let me know what you think. He infact gave me my idea, which I showed t him and he thought it was good. Have fun!
Myron

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Narendra Singh
Film Handler

Posts: 22
From: Redmond, WA, USA
Registered: Jul 2015


 - posted July 12, 2015 03:58 PM      Profile for Narendra Singh   Email Narendra Singh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I purchased "H4/9003 CREE LED 30W Head Light Lamp" as an alternate to my MONTGOMERY WARDS 805 Projector lamp. It is a complete self contained unit with current control moduel. I am giving this a try. Will try and post few pics of my contraption.

Note: The current control module is incased in a steel enclosure which acts as an heat sink. However this casing heats up considerably and hence should be anchored to any steel/ aluminum portion inside the Projector.

I have removed the steel plate (the one with three jetting out prongs) and the white plastic base (disc) under the steel plate by removing the two screws. Please see photo in the eBay Ad.

I now need to cover the LED shaft with an opaque PVC tube and cutting an appropriate size hole in line with the three leds.

The LEDs light as such don't emit any heat but the base of the LEDs heat and thus proper and adequate heat sink with fan has been provided.

To power the unit, you need a cheap laptop power supply with 12 to 20 Volt DC, 4.5Amp or more output.

While modifying any vintage machine my aim is to (as far as possible) leave the original lamp fittings intact. The LED Lamp modification should go as an add-on.

One might like to give this a try as well.

H4/9003 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/191403187748?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=ST RK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[ July 12, 2015, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Narendra Singh ]

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Steve Carter
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: Apr 2015


 - posted July 13, 2015 04:14 AM      Profile for Steve Carter     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Narendra, I think I will try this for my Sankyo Dualux, just found one on UK Ebay, although it's from China...
Cree 30w

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Myron Baron
Film Handler

Posts: 49
From: Easton, Pa 18045
Registered: Jan 2008


 - posted July 13, 2015 04:40 PM      Profile for Myron Baron   Author's Homepage   Email Myron Baron   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Singh:
I see what your doing, but what I do not understand, all the posts above want an LED with out any outside the projector power source, I see by your post that this is not possible as I said previously. I'm working on one now that's very similar to yours, but gives off way less heat. In a couple of weeks I will put it up on the forum with a link to a video, using a Elmo, K-110SM movie projector. I know yours will work also. Good Luck.
Myron

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Narendra Singh
Film Handler

Posts: 22
From: Redmond, WA, USA
Registered: Jul 2015


 - posted July 13, 2015 06:16 PM      Profile for Narendra Singh   Email Narendra Singh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dear Myron,

I do understand your post and reading between the lines, I get a feeling that I am trying to step on your toes. I am new to this forum and I have come here to learn and share. I am in no way trying to compete with you or for that matter with anybody else on this esteemed forum. Said that, in case I have inadvertently tried to step on your toes I humbly apologize and I am sorry for the same.

Thank you.

Best regards,

Narendra

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Myron Baron
Film Handler

Posts: 49
From: Easton, Pa 18045
Registered: Jan 2008


 - posted July 13, 2015 06:56 PM      Profile for Myron Baron   Author's Homepage   Email Myron Baron   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Narendra
I am sorry if I gave you that impression, I thought that what you were doing was to all the posts that were above your post. I have designed a LED to replace a standard projector bulb. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNA1vffiHrE) I thought what your were posting was in reference to the postings above, you are not stepping on anyone's toes, I read your post and I assumed that your were referring to what Steve was talking about above, an all in one LED, no outside power sources, and I do not think it can be done, with out quite a few internal modifications, my LED kit, has only two wires to connect in the projector, the rest is mounted outside, as there is not enough room to mount them inside.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Myron
Myron

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Narendra Singh
Film Handler

Posts: 22
From: Redmond, WA, USA
Registered: Jul 2015


 - posted July 13, 2015 08:31 PM      Profile for Narendra Singh   Email Narendra Singh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Myron,

Thank you for clearing the misunderstanding. I am sorry for my thoughts drifting in the other direction. No hard feelings here. All's well that ends well. [Smile]

Best regards,

Narendra

OK back on topic with a smile. [Smile]

I agree with you that it is difficult (if not impossible) to have one single unit LED light source suitable for projection which can be driven directly by 110V AC mains. For this the main limiting factor will be the size of the whole LED unit that can fit inside the original lamp housing which is generally a small and restricted space.

Considering the above I am also working with another type of LED source which I purchased last month. This has all the required components built in (the LEDs with reflector/LED driver/Heat sink - the aluminum body acts as the heat sink). However it needs an external 9 Volt, 2.5Amp or more DC power source. The overall size of the unit is small (approx. 2" X 2") The item is:-

High Power 6000LM 5 x CREE XM-L T6 LED Bicycle Light Headlamp
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331454954281?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=ST RK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I have already given this (the second unit mentioned above) a crude trial (by holding the unit in hand) on one of my 8mm projectors, but I find that the result is not as satisfactory as I would like.

Hope somebody can work on this as well.

[ July 13, 2015, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: Narendra Singh ]

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Florida
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 14, 2015 01:46 AM      Profile for Alan Gouger     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Myron and Narendra alternative light source has always interested me. This is fascinating. I plan to do some experimenting as well now that the both of you have lit a fire on this topic.
Have ether of you considered building a light box separate from the projector and feeding the projector a fiber optic tube which would transmit the light very close to the gate with little to no heat. You would no longer have restrictions on internal work space due to size of projector and you can now increase brightness even further just throw a muffin fan on the box.
The new D-cinema laser projectors are doing just that. The laser components sit in a separate chiller box aside the projector. Light enters the projector via fiber optic tubes.

 -

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Steve Carter
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: Apr 2015


 - posted July 14, 2015 04:11 AM      Profile for Steve Carter     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What a brilliant concept, I never thought of fiber-optic the light source you use can be as high as you would like,and with next to no light spillage, as the fiber-optic would be directed at the gate. This subject gets more interesting post by post...

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frank arnstein
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 534
From: Gold Coast. Australia
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted July 14, 2015 04:41 AM      Profile for frank arnstein   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Myron.

You haven't answered Brians earlier question yet and I am also curious.

He said......

"I see what the output of the LED is, but not how much gets through the gate and lens. Is there a condenser lens front of the 3 LEDS shown?"

So just how much of the light output of the 3 LEDs is actually going to make it through the aperture and to the lens?

None of the LEDs are directly in front of the aperture.
So how are you going to bend the light or aim the 3 LEDs so all the light output converges into a tight beam and goes through.?
Have you measured the amount of light coming out of the aperture?

dogtor frankarnstein [Smile] [Confused]

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Steve Carter
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: Apr 2015


 - posted July 14, 2015 05:05 AM      Profile for Steve Carter     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maybe this could be adapted CREE LED Spot-light for A1 232...
CREE LED Spot

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Myron Baron
Film Handler

Posts: 49
From: Easton, Pa 18045
Registered: Jan 2008


 - posted July 14, 2015 06:36 AM      Profile for Myron Baron   Author's Homepage   Email Myron Baron   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve
Yes the is an optic condenser in front of the light to make sure all the light goes thru the gate.
Myron

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Steve Carter
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: Apr 2015


 - posted July 14, 2015 06:40 AM      Profile for Steve Carter     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for reply Myron, but I did not ask the question, it was dogtor frankarnstein who asked about the condenser...

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Myron Baron
Film Handler

Posts: 49
From: Easton, Pa 18045
Registered: Jan 2008


 - posted July 14, 2015 07:59 AM      Profile for Myron Baron   Author's Homepage   Email Myron Baron   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank
Your way out of my realm, I have no idea about your subject Laser Optics, though it sounds very interesting, I'm a little to old to start learning this now(80 yrs old) Sounds very interesting and also very expensive. It is hard for me to believe, this whole forum started with my posting about replacing a CXL/CXR 8V 60W bulb with my replacement kit to LED. I hope your project comes to fruition. Good luck
Myron

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Narendra Singh
Film Handler

Posts: 22
From: Redmond, WA, USA
Registered: Jul 2015


 - posted July 14, 2015 09:05 AM      Profile for Narendra Singh   Email Narendra Singh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Myron Baron wrote:

quote:

It is hard for me to believe, this whole forum started with my posting about replacing a CXL/CXR 8V 60W bulb with my replacement kit to LED.

This thread, in a sense, has been high jacked. This is not only incorrect but also being rude to the originator of the thread.

I suggest that (if need be) we start a new thread/topic on the lamp replacement subject and leave this thread for discussion for the purpose it was started.

I am one of the culprits and I realize my mistake. So my sincere apology to Myron. SORRY Myron.

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Myron Baron
Film Handler

Posts: 49
From: Easton, Pa 18045
Registered: Jan 2008


 - posted July 14, 2015 09:39 AM      Profile for Myron Baron   Author's Homepage   Email Myron Baron   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Narendra
I think you are right, I will start another post, this one got way out of proportion.
Sincerely
Myron

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted July 14, 2015 01:18 PM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As I have previously posted, I started a post concerning this very subject back in April.
I cannot agree that the subject has been hijacked. It is simply a natural progression of something that could benefit us all and should be encouraged. The more ideas and applications of alternative lighting, the better. It should not be dedicated to one individuals proposal.
Myron
If you wish to start a fresh thread concerning your interests then by all means. But I do hope this thread continues and thrives.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted July 14, 2015 01:28 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I totally agree with you Terry in terms of "natural progression" of a topic.

For what it's worth this word "hijacked" is used far too frequently on here in my humble opinion.

After all, natural conversation and ideas take on diversity and digression so in turn, why shouldn't the typed variation of conversation do likewise?

Surely that is just "natural progression" and therefore promotes some excellent concepts and ideas no matter how much they digress from topic due to progression of subject matter.

If anyone wants to bring to market a finished concept on here then i am all for that, but surely while at the drawing board stage, all ideas are welcomed.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Ken Finch
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 543
From: Herne Bay, Kent. U.K.
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted July 14, 2015 02:50 PM      Profile for Ken Finch   Email Ken Finch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I really must agree with the comments of Terry and Andrew about this topic. The key factors with regard to all lamp modifications is getting as much of thye light as possible through the gate aperture. The Cree spotlight bulb with the integral reflector could be a relacement possibility for the 12volt Halogen projector lamps as cars are 12volts D.C. To my mind the problem is that the 12volt supply on the projector is A.C. I am not sure whether they have a converter built into the base of the lamp as the mains replacement ones I have used have. Also the parabolic shape of the reflector may not be suitable. Certainly the type of LED mentioned in the previous April post has possibilities for older projectors using 230 or 110volt prefocus base lamps may well be a viable alternative to the current method of using readily available Halogen bulb which do require the use of a separate transformer. Ken Finch.

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Steve Carter
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: Apr 2015


 - posted July 14, 2015 03:50 PM      Profile for Steve Carter     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The homemade 500 LED torch, the light near the end of the film about 2min.50sec, in the room is blinding...
500 LED Torch

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