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Author Topic: Ever Notice That...
Douglas Warren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: West Chester, OH, USA
Registered: Feb 2008


 - posted July 02, 2015 08:49 AM      Profile for Douglas Warren     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ever notice that some films run better on one projector than another? I guess it boils down to the tolerances of each machine.If nothing else it gives us a reasonable excuse why we own so many projectors... [Wink]

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Turn out the lights,the movie is starting!

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted July 02, 2015 10:47 AM      Profile for Joseph Randall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes. Some projectors seem to need film that is well-lubricated with Filmrenew or similar. I have found Elmos much more forgiving than Eumigs.

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted July 02, 2015 11:07 AM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Douglas for giving me a good reason to tell the wife why I need to keep all my projectors. Ha.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 02, 2015 11:56 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have three active sound machines.

-each of 'em has one film they play the best, and one they play the worst, and in some cases I can't figure out exactly why even though the results are dramatically different.

Makes life interesting!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 02, 2015 01:52 PM      Profile for Gary Crawford     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have written to Steve Osborne and Doug Meltzer about my theories on this subject....and before the men in the white coats come to get me, I will write them here. Let collectors consider them carefully.

I've long believed that projectors are somehow sentient creatures with feelings and preferences and that they can cause great trouble when they are unhappy.

I've always run ST1200HD's in my booth at home, but six or so years ago I purchased my first GS1200. I placed the shiny new prize in the lineup of projectors in the booth, alongside the ST 1200Hd's. Within a day or two, things began happening. After running something on the GS, I would, of course, turn off the machine. The next day, however, I found the GS on again. Later, a plastic reel of a 400ft film I was running on the GS, came apart at the hub. Film everywhere.
I could have sworn that there was faint laughter from the two now neglected St1200Hd's. One night I decided to run a film on one of the ST's. Bulb would not come on. I moved the film to the other ST. Belt snapped, or so it seemed.

The last straw was coming to the booth one night to find my expensive GS perched up on the platform, hanging by only one back foot pad and the front pad. Another half inch and it would have been over the edge and fallen five feet down to the floor, its delicate workings unhinged beyond repair.
"Attempted suicide?", I thought. No. I think it was attempted murder by ST or ST's unknown.

I removed the GS from the booth that day. And strangely, the bulb on the one machine came on when I put a film on it to run, even though I had not changed the bulb. The other St started running properly again with nothing done to it.

They were happy again, all mechanical jealously seemingly melted away.

On the other hand, at this last Syracuse Cinefest I brought one of my other St1200's to the convention because I had promised to sell it to a 16mm collector friend who was delving into Super 8. I checked its operation at home before driving to Syracuse. It ran beautifully. However, in my room at the hotel as I was demonstrating the machine to the prospective buyer, it ran slow for the first two minutes of a 200ft reel and finally came up to speed. Obviously the man didn't want to buy it. So it came back home with me.
Why would a machine which worked perfectly 24 hours before suddenly act up like that? When I got home, I hooked it up again and IT RAN PERFECTLY........
Which brings me to the crux of this thread. Is it possible that certain projectors just don't enJOY certain movies? And that they do especially enjoy running certain other movies? Are lost loops, jumpy images and muffled sound tracks just their way of expressing their opinions about what they think is a bad movie?
These are questions best not asked aloud. Perhaps Stephen King knows the truth.
But I must stop now. The people from the "home" are here to collect me. My trusty friends, the projectors,seem somehow sad to see their old friend put away like an unwanted projector.
So be forewarned. If someone offers to sell you a projector from the estate of Gary Crawford in Virginia, USA, you might want to consider well your decision to buy. And I'd keep a closer eye on your own machines, as well. One never knows what they might be capable of.

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Joe Vannicola
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 108
From: Lincoln, DE, USA
Registered: Feb 2014


 - posted July 02, 2015 02:20 PM      Profile for Joe Vannicola   Email Joe Vannicola   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A couple of my films run wobbly through the gate of my Kodak Pagent,yet I have no trouble when showing them on my B&H 285 or my Hokushin. Gary as far as your projector is concerned, I think it was so attached to you that it didn't want to go to another owner, so it acted up. You know,just like a child.lol [Big Grin]

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Joe

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted July 02, 2015 02:36 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I've found the Bauer's to have a very "stable temprement".
In fact they are the only machines I have ever owned where they will run any kind of film you care to throw at them and their behaviours never ever alters.

No other machine I have ever owned performs quite like them.
Even the Beaulieu complains a little at stretched old brittle acetate films. It runs them flawlessly but sounds a whole lot different then when running well lubed poly prints.

The Eumig 938 is also quite a stable handler of all types of film but the Bauer is something else! Nothing sounds any different than anything else, a true one off!

[ July 04, 2015, 03:19 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted July 02, 2015 02:50 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I've found the Bauer's to have a very "stable temprement".
In fact they are the only machines I have ever owned where they will run any kind of film you care to throw at them and their behaviours never ever alters.

No other machine I have ever owned performs quite like them.
Even the Beaulieu complains a little at stretched old brittle acetate films. It runs them flawlessly but sounds a whole lot different then when running well lubed poly prints.

The Eumig 938 is also quite a stable handler of all types of film but the Bauer is something else! Nothing sounds any different than anything else, a true one off!

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted July 02, 2015 03:02 PM      Profile for Joseph Randall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andrew,

Tell me that again. [Big Grin]

quote:
C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat
"Will you stop that silly beat business and listen."

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted July 02, 2015 03:19 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah everything is coming out duplicate at the moment ...weird?? Believe me, I'm only typing it all once!! [Big Grin] [Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted July 02, 2015 03:28 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah everything is coming out duplicate at the moment ...weird?? Believe me, I'm only typing it all once!! [Big Grin] [Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted July 02, 2015 03:44 PM      Profile for Terry Sills     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joseph
'Now tell me that again' - now that's a Oliver Hardy quote if ever I heard one!

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Douglas Warren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: West Chester, OH, USA
Registered: Feb 2008


 - posted July 02, 2015 03:49 PM      Profile for Douglas Warren     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My Sankyo 600 detests my beloved copy of "Flight of the Phoenix."My Copal CP-402 dearly loves the print and runs it glitch free.The Sankyo also had some trouble running reel four of my copy of "Checkpoint." Either it was the footage itself or it's just not a fan of Stanley Baker. [Big Grin]

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Turn out the lights,the movie is starting!

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 02, 2015 04:04 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
So be forewarned. If someone offers to sell you a projector from the estate of Gary Crawford in Virginia, USA, you might want to consider well your decision to buy.
Gary, too bad you did'nt tell me that when you sold me that Eumig 824 at cINESEA! [Big Grin]

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015


 - posted July 02, 2015 06:23 PM      Profile for Joseph Randall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Joseph
'Now tell me that again' - now that's a Oliver Hardy quote if ever I heard one!

Yes -- that's from him. [Razz]

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007


 - posted July 02, 2015 10:12 PM      Profile for Richard C Patchett   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings
There human [Smile]
I had the same with the 2580 bell & howell
after replaceing the worm gear in both they were set to specs
They both ran the same. Replaced all belts lube etc even the feet. Still one was a little louder then the other I went over the projectors many of times
Found that one of the foot screws did not have a washer in the foot
Strange i put in the washer and both ran and sounded the same
I guess it was telling me that it was sick and needed a doctor
There like pets in there own way
Or is it like a woman ( Ill leave it there)
RC

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RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted July 03, 2015 07:02 AM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My Norisound 412 will auto-thread films with a Kodak leader perfectly OK, but needs help with straight film. It also prefers films that have been lubricated. No trouble of that sort with my Sankyo 301 or Eumig 710D.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted July 03, 2015 08:01 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I think every single machine would always benefit from films run through a cloth containing a suitable lubricant such as Filmguard.

The difference before and after on most machines is simply staggering!

I just wish I could post video footage on here just for people who have never had the benefit of owning one the above mentioned Bauer machines or even seeing one in action, just to show how unbelievably silent running these machines are as well as how totally unfussy with whatever they are fed!

I am sure there would be many converts and many new and old collectors with restored faith in collecting what are after all now, one off, never to be repeated, highly valuable prints in lots of cases.

Many machines nowadays just completely put you off paying very large sums for quality films as the enjoyment gained from projecting them just isn't always what it ought to be for one reason or another.

[ July 04, 2015, 03:21 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted July 03, 2015 08:03 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Brian. Its pretty much a case of choose the right projector for the job. When the Norisound range was introduced decades ago they were mainly aimed at keen amateur film makers and designed with a fast pull down claw, wide degree shutter, single claw pin and top choice of lens. Because of the fast pull down and claw design shrunken films with natural aging can jump. Although I have loved the Noris machines and do prefer for showing my own made films on them due to the image brightness, crisp sound quality and rear sprung gate thus helping to keep perfect focus a super 8 projector with a twin claw such as Elmo is a better choice for 24fps projection particularly with vintage acetate films. Nice to read you also have a Noris machine.

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David Roberts
Master Film Handler

Posts: 405
From: Suffolk. England
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted July 06, 2015 02:43 PM      Profile for David Roberts     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gary,
I loved reading your post. I think the first bit can be explained as sibling rivalry

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted July 06, 2015 04:28 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill Parsons has told me more than once,
"no two projectors are ever the same".
Pretty much like cars. [Wink]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted July 06, 2015 04:35 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
In 8mm land, hundredths of a mm often make a noticeable difference on many parts of a mechanism. With this in mind, Bill's comment becomes highly relevant as a build up of tolerances in a mass produced product become extremely critical.

I think you stand a better chance with the few hand built machines as they are crafted in a way that allows error in tolerances to be spotted on assembly and corrected before leaving the factory.

Unfortunately only a slender few 8mm machines were hand built, notably Beaulieu and quite probably Fumeo.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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