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Author Topic: 2.22 great for our movies..but?
Panayotis A. Carayannis
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 969
From: Athens,Greece
Registered: Jul 2008


 - posted September 19, 2015 12:42 AM      Profile for Panayotis A. Carayannis     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well,Derek Simmonds died of prostate cancer and Dave West was a diabetic who lost his sight as a result and had to close down DCR and then,lived another ten years or so. Also,why only Derek and not anyone else of the Derann staff? I don't believe Derek did all the lubricating and cleaning of all the millions of meters of film that came out of Derann by himself!!!

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted September 19, 2015 02:23 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I totally agree with you Panayotis, and personally I find it very uncomfortable to read comments about the passing of our much missed film dealers and late collector friends in an amateur almost post-mortem manner, looking for causes other than simply poor health misfortune for their early demise.

I do wonder if Paul receives commission payments for worldwide Armourall sales sometimes - sincerely Paul using any water based cleaner is a folly on precious film emulsions whatever the perceived outcome on screen.

Kevin

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008


 - posted September 19, 2015 02:56 AM      Profile for Martin Jones     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Quote: "still got some 2.22 in a red tin somewhere, I guess it will have evaporated by now."

I've still got one large and one small tin of 2.22. So long as the caps are firmly screwed on it doesn't evaporate..... and I still use it (with sensible precautions, of course).

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted September 19, 2015 04:15 AM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It was very sad to see an advert from Dave West, soon after he had lost his sight, with his personal film collection up for sale as he could no longer watch them. I'm not sure his name was on the advert, but the address was his.

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Mark Silvester
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: England
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted September 19, 2015 05:14 AM      Profile for Mark Silvester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was privileged to become a good friend of Dave's family.

He started out as a psychiatric nurse and he gave film shows to patients, etc. That is how he started out. He was one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I think Roger Lilley from Movieland International was too.

[Smile]

--------------------
Mark Silvester

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 19, 2015 05:15 AM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Despite the collective reassurances that these chemicals are fine to use and pose no risk to health I personally would not use them or even have them in my house. If I had my time again I would never ever have used them. I personally know three collectors who have all died of leukaemia. Each of them didn't fit into the criteria of genetics, lifestyle or environment but the one common factor they all had was they owned big film collections advocated film cleaners in a substantial way and were all dead in their 40s and early 50s . It is very patronising for collectors who are much older to say everything is fine I'm still alive when to be honest they haven't a clue what they are talking about.

Take a can of film cleaner any brand to someone in the medical profession. Explain what you use it for and how you expose yourself to it when using it and see what advice they give you.

If you have the guts to do it tell US what they told you.

My advice to newer collectors and ones entering the hobby is

A. Never use any film cleaning product. You don't know what is in it. Particularly now that we have DIY product manufactured in quiet drug dealer style for profit with no health considerations given to customers. You can guarantee use will be inherently bad to YOU plus any FAMILY members . Even when the product is dry you have no idea what vapours you are releasing into the environment when projecting.

B. Don't use any household cleaning products. They were not designed for that use. If not immediately you will end up damaging your film / soundtrack in the long term making the film worthless.

[ September 19, 2015, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: Mike Newell ]

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted September 19, 2015 05:39 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Mike

Thank you for your considered input and I am very sorry to hear you lost collector friends at such an early age. However it is over simplifying the nature of such fatal illnesses to attribute them to hobby based activities - I have also lost friends and family members earlier than would have been hoped but trying to analyse the reasons and causes is really a job for medical professionals and not something to become obsessed about.

Your comments under 'A' are not true in all instances - to say film cleaners are 'DIY product manufactured on the quiet drug dealer style for profit with no health considerations to their customers in a garden shed or garage' is totally untrue - both Filmgaurd and Filmrenew are patented professionally manufactured film cleaners for which hazard data sheets are readily available, and both are used professionally in huge amounts by film archives and cinemas still projecting 35mm etc. Just follow the instructions for usage correctly as you would with any cleaning product, even household cleaners - I take it you have bleach, meths and paint brush cleaners somewhere 'in-house' so where is the difference?

Your comments under 'B' are spot on though, well done.

Kevin

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted September 19, 2015 06:06 AM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Kevin

Thank you for your comments

I have never used Filmguard and Filmrenew. Would it be true to say they are US based products and subject to their health & safety regulations which are admittedly are lot more relaxed than Europe. Also,the application of these products by collectors is not correct. I used cleaners via a film bath attached to a motorised editor which the film passed through. This saved me time and reduced exposure to the cleaner. I would reckon the majority of collectors apply product directly to a white cotton cloth and run film through cloth by exposed hand whilst using an editor. This is not how it is done in archives.

I would stand by my comment that all UK cleaning products are unlicenced with no instructions or contents sold in white plastic bottles with a yellow type liquid inside them.

I think you would have to be drinking meths to use bleach or paint brush cleaner on films [Eek!] [Eek!]

I am talking about WD40, Mr Sheen and leather car upholstery products. You may not scratch your film with them but I would reckon stripe especially the later Derann releases would be vulnerable to damage.

In summary if I was starting out in film collecting today I wouldnt clean films at ALL. I also know a lot of collectors who never did. Life is too short for that boredom and if some other pilgrim want to do it let them. AMEN.

[ September 19, 2015, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: Mike Newell ]

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Mark Silvester
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: England
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted September 19, 2015 06:28 AM      Profile for Mark Silvester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good post Mike.

It is interesting, actually I am sure that Mark Todd had a list of people he had collated over the years who he believed had been affected health-wise by "certain" film cleaning products. Perhaps he would care to comment as it was quite extensive.

As for household products - well, I have a few old prints that I shall continue to experiment with - just for fun and interest...I did like Armorall though that Paul Adsett recommended...it was brilliant for cleaning my 16mm prints - amazing results, although these did not have mag soundtracks so I can not comment on 8mm and mag tracks, etc. [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes] [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
Mark Silvester

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted September 19, 2015 03:52 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have not had any problems with the stripe using Armorall on Super8.

In my opinion there is no such thing as a safe chemical, but in saying that just look at the "added" processed contents of what you are "eating every day" from your local supermarket [Eek!]

Regarding cleaning the odd film...each to there own, as what they want to use, however just be careful as how you apply it. [Smile]

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted September 21, 2015 06:43 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think looking at the whole health issue of the western world,(who eat e-numbers,chemicals added to food and crap all day every day including the USA take away brands), compare this to the the Mediterranean countries, and i think we can see its the western world with the health issues.
Chemicals certainly dont help and i used 222 for years because i was lead to believe this was the number one cleaner, it stank and dried my hands. My sense of smell is all but vanished and i suffer with sinusitis on a daily basis.
It may have been the 222, but i dont know, today i use film guard as i believe it to be the best and safest on the market. Is IT? I dont Know, and for those who may say yes it is, is it really? I will never know i guess. [Confused] [Wink]
Don't forget even basic household paint products contained lead for years.

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