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Author Topic: Mandatory Price Listing in "Films For Sale" Sections
Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4443
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 11, 2016 09:10 AM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This subject has come up recently so I'd like to ask for your opinions.

Back in 2011 I wrote:

"I personally am more comfortable knowing the exact amount a seller wants for their print. However, I'm not sure that I would delete a post that doesn't list prices. We have always had non-collectors who find the Forum through a search because they would like to sell a relative's collection, but don't know anything about 8mm. I wouldn't like to discourage those posts."

I still feel that way, however we've also seen knowledgeable members post sales without prices, which as of this writing they have every right to do.

Is it better to have the films made available on the Forum, or do we risk alienating sellers who would not list them otherwise? In the past we've had a number of members on both sides of the issue. Since it has been 5 years, I'd like to know what you think.

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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 - posted August 11, 2016 09:52 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I was selling a print I'd put up a price just to save myself a lot of low-ball offers and other price questions, but I don't see it being exactly mandatory.

A posting of a sales ad on an online discussion forum is kind of an interesting phenomenon. If you saw a sheet of paper on the bulletin board at the supermarket from some guy wanting to sell his bike, you'd never see six more sheets underneath from other people saying "I had one of these bikes, it was awful." or "You're asking for too much money." or "Do you know how to adjust the seat?".

-but here it's just natural to discuss these postings, I do it myself. It's just that it doesn't always go well, especially for the seller.

In the best of all worlds these ads would go up locked, so they'd function more like a classified ad in print media.

-but speaking as somebody who isn't the moderator that's too easy for me to say.

Maybe my main point here is the ads themselves really aren't the big problem, it's the direction the discussion that follows takes that sometimes skids into a swamp.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Terry Sills
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From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
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 - posted August 11, 2016 10:02 AM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I understand your dilemma Doug, but this is not an auction site. If that is what a seller requires there are plenty of good alternatives.
It is not difficult to differentiate between newcomers and posts from regular/frequent user members, by simply checking their Forum rating (we all have one). Also a newcomer would first have to apply and register with you, so you will be aware of them.
The problem is nearly always proliferated by long standing members,who should know better, but in my opinion are just playing the system.
I favour the deleting of these posts. It nearly always culminates in a cluster of pm's asking for prices, which frequently go unanswered.
The member always has the option to re-post with prices. Do nothing and this practise will continue.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted August 11, 2016 10:04 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
For me personally Doug, I like to see transparency in all items being sold.

By that I mean, if we are to know the exact "going rate" of items now, be it new or experienced collectors, then a comparison between sales is essential in order to establish what an item is actually worth in today's market.

Of course, any item for sale, is only worth what someone else is prepared to pay for it, but by giving prices at all times, even inexperienced people selling relatives estates etc, would be granted a rough idea of what an item should be valued at.

Taking it one step further, I actually believe any films sold on forums or ebay should have at least one or two screen shots to accompany them.

This of course, will not tell the perspective buyer all he or she needs to know about a particular films condition being offered up for sale, but will at least offer a glimpse of what to expect regarding such attributes as colour fade, blue tinge etc etc and give further comparison for future reference when evaluating what a new print coming to market is worth.

That I suppose is for another time but on this one here, for me, all films and equipment should be advertised here with a fixed price.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurice Leakey
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 - posted August 11, 2016 10:07 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Doug
Steve makes a good point. So many replies to a new topic often steer it away from the original poster's intentions.
I would like to see the price of a film, or whatever, quoted, although I suppose it relies on the poster.
A quoted price would sell the item much earlier than repeated replies of "I am interested, how much for ....".

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Maurice

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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 - posted August 11, 2016 10:58 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The market for films and equipment is kind of funny. We seem to want them a lot, but then again prints and machines are standing out at the curb all the time because "Nobody uses these anymore." and the people who have them have no idea we are here.

I bought a print last month that if the seller wanted $100 for I just may have donated blood to find the money. The seller put it up for 10 bucks and much to my surprise even after I clicked "Buy it Now" I still didn't wake up in a cold sweat. ("NOOOOOOO!!!!!")

He was selling old junk, I was buying treasure: the market kind of failed to work that day (-for the seller!). I bet he still can't believe somebody paid him for it!

Here it could work something like this: In November "Jim" was retiring. He downsized his collection so he and his film-tolerant wife can move to a condo. His pension is good and they're getting a ton from selling the house: money is not a problem. He just wants to move the stuff out so he sells a title for 20 bucks.

The following May "Bob" gets a phone call. If he doesn't send the bank $800 in three weeks they are going to repossess his car. He wants a hundred bucks for that same title.

-should "Jim's" unmotivated price mean "Bob" has to walk to work in June?

Maybe there really isn't a market price: it's just the motivations of one buyer, one seller and the rest is all timing.

-I doubt I'd donate blood for a second print of that same film.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Paul Browning
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From: West Midlands United Kingdom
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 - posted August 11, 2016 01:05 PM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Its a tough one, no one seems to have a definitive answer either, but prices with the films will either attract buyers or detract them, I agree that pictures if possible will help the sale, but even with all the above, I have had insulting remarks about the film I advertised being "too steep" even after 3 or 4 emails going backward and forward even when I have described it accurately so we are and can be an awkward bunch to deal with. Like flea bay you still get the messer's no matter what you do.

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Osi Osgood
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 - posted August 11, 2016 01:06 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Personally, as a collector and a seller (at times), I certainly prefer seeing a price on any film that is offered on here. If a person is wanting an unreasonable amount (or, in other words much higher than anyone expects), then sell it elsewhere OR, put it up on ebay or otherwise, and then create a link to thier auction on here.

i understand the other point, a new person not knowing all the rules, but then, becoming a member, one really should know what is required of one when doing anything on a forum.

Having said all of that, i do like you're current policies, Doug.

As you well know, there are some, who post films for sale, that are "repeat offenders" in listing films with no prices, and with the number of people who constantly ask "Where is the price?" on thier listings, it's not like they don't know the policy, they do, and are purposefully ignoring it, thereby dishonoring the very forum, forum owners and members that frequent honorably.

The same rules should apply to all, otherwise, EVERYBODY will take the attitude, "Screw the rules and the forum moderators/owners, if they don't apply to this person, they don't apply to me."

Nuff said.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Jason Smith
Master Film Handler

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From: Tohoku, Japan
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 - posted August 11, 2016 03:11 PM      Profile for Jason Smith     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I like the current policy. I personally feel that the market works better the less regulation it has.

However if a price policy was instated, then I believe there should be no tolerance for complaints about price publicly.

Making a counter offer privately is fine but posting your disagreement in the sales thread or a separate thread should also be disallowed. In my brief time here, I've seen too many sale threads be hijacked because of disagreements on price.

If a price policy is implemented, then members who do not list prices should be punished. Also those who dissent on price in a sales thread or who make their opinion known in a seperate thread should also be punished.

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Tom Photiou
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 - posted August 11, 2016 03:17 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My own opinion is simple,
if you sell on here you should put your price on, this isnt an auction site, anyone who wants to do "the highest bidder " should use ebay, (as i do sometimes), if however you have something for sale and want XXX amount for it, please state that. Only my opinion though.The thread just drags on pointlessly. [Wink]

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Stuart Reid
Jedi Master Film Handler

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 - posted August 11, 2016 05:36 PM      Profile for Stuart Reid   Email Stuart Reid   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd like to see prices on here; not only is it fair to all potential purchasers, but it helps as a guide to what films are worth.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted August 11, 2016 05:47 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Another valid point to all of this here is, if you are first to meet the asking price of anything offered here, then it is fair to assume the item is yours.

Whilever the price is hidden behind a veil, a seller can of course play one potential buyer off with another.

How would the eventual buyer even know this other person even exists?

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Robert Tucker
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Essex, UK
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 - posted August 11, 2016 05:51 PM      Profile for Robert Tucker   Email Robert Tucker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think it's down to the protacal. If you have people posting on this website not posting prices for obvious reasons, wouldn't you follow suite. Especially if you have well respected players in this field.

Just an observation how this forum has changed somewhat ! Sometimes you need some decorum in this life.

What about the people who either constantly hijack someone's else's sales thread. Or what I strongly suspect this is all down to someone who either doesn't agree to someone's pricing just because they think it's not worth the price. Or who are jealous in what they're trying to achieve on there own merit. Regardless on oppintion or how they actual feel about your achievements.

Does that give someone the right ! I don't think so !

Never mind the bollocks !

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Alan Rik
Film God

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 - posted August 11, 2016 06:34 PM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would prefer that the seller list the price that they would want for the print.

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Mike Newell
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From: United Kingdom
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 - posted August 11, 2016 06:40 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In reply to Doug's question the section is called super 8 for sale not offer so in fairness to Buyers the ruling should be mandatory a price must be be given for item to be advertised on the forum and the rule must be applied to all Sellers equally and those who don't follow the rule the thread should be pulled by Admin. Equally, Sellers should be given protection from the derogatory and irrelevant postings on their sales threads from members who simply disagree with them they should be deleted by admin. It's not censorship it plain courtesy. There is general yak section for all the gurning sessions in the world.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted August 11, 2016 07:59 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mandatory price: yes
Commenting on somebody's price: no (if it is an individual seller is silly commenting his/her price!)

[ August 12, 2016, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

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Winbert

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Evan Samaras
Master Film Handler

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 - posted August 11, 2016 08:10 PM      Profile for Evan Samaras   Author's Homepage   Email Evan Samaras   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I prefer a listed price.

I feel as though I have been pushed to make offers on items that had no prices- I was places against others and was basically told..."well, someone offered me this much already,, can you beat that price?"

It turned me off to the purchase completely. It does stink to know that others may be pushed from listing films for that reason. However 16mmforum uses this rule and all seems well there.

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...When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the Earth...

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Larry Arpin
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 - posted August 12, 2016 01:17 AM      Profile for Larry Arpin   Author's Homepage   Email Larry Arpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I remember Ian did the same. There was some objections but I went along with Ian's request and received 2 films I really wanted. One I still have and the other I sold as I found a better copy.

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Kevin Clark
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From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted August 12, 2016 02:08 AM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you for starting this thread Doug it is greatly appreciated.

Yes please to mandatory pricing in the Sales and Trade section (all gauges please not just 8mm) and also mandatory to leave the price it sold for so others can see and reference for future film pricing.

Newbies or established members wanting to find out the possible value of their films - signpost them to this section so they can ask 'What Are My Films Worth?' first before listing them with prices in the sales / trade section.

Very strictly though please allow no comments about prices, however high they may be, in the sellers priced listing. Just questions relating to the print condition, postage costs or request for screenshots etc.

This would encourage sales rather than hinder them and provide a valuable reference for future sellers - the open transparent sales section so many of us would like to see. If the prices are too high the films won't sell as we can see at the moment with some members repeated Ebay re-listings of their features.

Hopefully more members will express their view here to make the most of this rule change opportunity.

Kevin

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Flavio Stabile
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 - posted August 12, 2016 02:43 AM      Profile for Flavio Stabile   Email Flavio Stabile   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I prefer the prices are always listed...
Personally I don't even ask about an item if the price is not present!

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
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 - posted August 12, 2016 06:50 AM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Flávio
I'm with you on that opinion. If there are no prices I just do not bother enquiring. To me it's just a scam to play one against another and as someone has already said, it is possible that it's just the seller that you're bidding against. ( Shill bidding)
This behaviour should not be tolerated on this Forum, which is a band of brothers with a common interest in assisting others - apart from the unethical few.

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Gary Crawford
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 - posted August 12, 2016 07:09 AM      Profile for Gary Crawford   Email Gary Crawford   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Over on the 16mm forum don't they require prices? I thought I'd seen listings flagged and taken down for not having prices. Frankly, my preference would be prices. When people go fishing for prices on the forum, they might as well go to ebay directly. When forum people don't price, they are in essence setting up their own little auction. It's one thing to go onto the forum and ask people what a film or films might be worth and another to offer up for sale films with no prices attached.

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Barry Fritz
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 - posted August 12, 2016 11:46 AM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mandatory prices, and other requirements just as Kevin stated. And yes, 16mmfilmtalk requires prices on everything listed for sale.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
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 - posted August 12, 2016 11:47 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It appears to be unanimous, Doug!! [Smile]

Andrew, as always, is spot on with his comments concernin this issue.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Michael Lattavo
Expert Film Handler

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From: Canton, OH, USA
Registered: May 2014


 - posted August 12, 2016 12:00 PM      Profile for Michael Lattavo   Email Michael Lattavo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with listing prices - could offer the option to list price OBO.

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