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Author Topic: Sankyo sound 600 motor problems repair
Mark Creighton
Junior
Posts: 21
From: Schodack, NY, USA
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted October 04, 2016 01:10 PM      Profile for Mark Creighton   Email Mark Creighton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Janice,

There is a series SCR's in this configuration with different voltage ratings. They are NTE5400 through NTE5406.
NTE5400 30V
NTE5401 60V
NTE5402 100V
NTE5403 150V
NTE5404 200V
NTE5405 400V
NTE5406 600V

The other specs are identical, so you might want to use a NTE5403 or NTE5404.

Here is a link to the spec sheet NTE Spec Sheet

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3432
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted October 08, 2016 11:12 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Mark for the heads up on the voltages. Looks like I will be buying one.

I've been a little pre-occupied watching the baseball playoffs...but today I replaced the T1 transistor and the big C1 capacitor. I was hoping this would solve the problem...but no go [Frown] . At least I didn't blow anything up... everything ran fine ... except still can't adjust the speed.

 -

Next I'll replace the SCR..C2 and T2. I haven't received the new pots yet.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3432
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted October 09, 2016 03:28 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
UPDATE....Not good news [Frown]

Lack of experience has created a down-turn to this project. In replacing the T2 transistor I ran across the problem of the pins on the new transistor were wider than the holes in the circuit board. I decided to lightly hammer a brad into the hole to widen it...NOT RECOMMENDED! I didn't realize until after I turned the board over that it had crack the board and most likely broke one or more traces. [Mad] After this fiasco the motor will not turn on now.
Probably the only hope for this projector is to find a working replacement board. I don't really feel up to trying to figure out what traces need repair.

But all is not lost in this scenario. I learned a ton about identifying and testing components. I specifically appreciate the assistance from Phil Murat. Phil you under estmate your knowledge and you troubleshooting skills. You definitely are not a beginner. I certainly am impressed as I'm sure others who have read any of this thread are also.

I'd also like to thank Mark Creighton for his input. I did order the SCR...unfortunately I won't be able to use it. What a shame...

Anybody have a speed board to a Sankyo 600 they want to sell?...Cheap [Wink]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 668
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted October 10, 2016 03:16 AM      Profile for Phil Murat   Email Phil Murat   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Janice,

I understand you get problem with PCB material during T2 installation.
These former PCB's are fragile as this is not Epoxy Reinforced with Fiber matérial : It can crack easily and may be due to the age, tracks can stick out if overheated.

I met exactly these typical problems when working on my projectors.

So, don't be afraid too much, there is a high probability you can fix it anyway , making "Bridges" for the damaged tracks (small portion of wire and "Top off" concerned area with Tin).
As necessary, for exemple, pick up portion of wire from spare resistors.

Could you put here a picture for the Coper Tracks Side?

This is a precision work wich requires a magnifying lens (x3 approx) on stand.
Also I use a Headlamp (LEDLENSER are very good) and a precision soldering iron (narrow tip, 15W).
As necessary too, to extract Tin from tracks, you can use a Hand Depress Pump or Coper Mesh dependind on the configuration.

Standard Drills size for PCB holes are 0,8mm (sometimes 0,6mm for tiny components)

Remember also if T1 has failed it is important to find out the failure root. Otherwise installing a new one without solving the cause can lead it to fail again.

Courrage !!

NB:

Plan "B" :
In case nothing works and spare PCB hard to find, I think it is possible to "Clone" the former PCB.
That needs time but you can find a dedicated "Freeware" on the Web to carry out the drawing (professionnal result).
This is a simple lay PCB. Big advantage is you can get it in Epoxy material (more professionnal)for few USD.....

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted October 10, 2016 03:58 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Cloning the circuit boards sounds like a great idea Phil!

Maybe a few of our machines would benefit from having some spare boards.

Do you design them yourself using the freeware?

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 668
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted October 10, 2016 04:29 AM      Profile for Phil Murat   Email Phil Murat   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Andrew,

I have started to make a simple board for a small power card as a primary experience, as you kwow , I am still working on an Embeded "Frequencemeter" for my Beaulieu's :

2 devices (and their Infrared probes) are almost ready to install inside rear cover .

Now,I just need to pick up a little power from big transformer inside Beaulieu 708(I mean Lamp Coil) and to adapt voltage to Frequencemeter (Power consumption estimated is 0,3 A, approx)..... [Wink]

However the "first juice" for my PCB power is not very good looking, right now, because I met problem during printing drawing on the PCB
[Roll Eyes]

To follow

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted October 10, 2016 04:38 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Let us know of your progress please Phil. This is exciting work here and the results will be amazing I'm sure! [Wink]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3432
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted October 10, 2016 06:59 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Phil...your words have inspired me to move on with trying to repair this board. I admit to being very discouraged for about a day... but you have opened my eyes to alternatives. The idea of repairing or bridging the bad traces...or possibly creating a completely new circuit board all sound doable and something new to learn.

Here is a pic of the traces side of the PCB. The damaged areas are to the right of where I've labeled T1-T2.

 -

[ October 10, 2016, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 668
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted October 11, 2016 02:07 AM      Profile for Phil Murat   Email Phil Murat   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Janice,

At first sight, the tracks overall condition looks OK. There are minor damages, anyway bridges are properly done.

Observing PCB through side tracks is helpful to anticipate complementary checks for other components :

Could you check what happens when the "white bloc" fitted on steel bracket (and blue wired) is disconnected from PCB)?

-Observe effect as speed motor change for exemple.
If speed decrease, check "Pots" for efficiency.

-There is a high probability this is a Interference-Suppression Capacitor , however do not let motor running a long time when capacitor disconnected.

Let us know....

Moreother, a good news is this circuit is not too much sophisticated.

If you like attempting a "cloning" experience , try that (This is in French language , but quite a "basic" use anyway) :

TCI DOWNLOAD FREEWARE

This is a "Lightweight" software (331ko). "Framework" Microsoft installation is prerequisite.

TCI.exe is compacted. Upon first time lauching it expenses in different files. The total size is around 1 MO once expended !!

Have a great fun !

As a first Test , making any drawing you want, you can select the drawing with the mouse, make "Copy" (Rh "Clic" if I remember)

and Paste in a "Word" page (for exemple). After that, Change picture from "Red" Color to Dark Black 100%, adjust the picture size to get the truth size (as a try and test procedure).....this is almost ready to transfer on a PCB !!!

[ October 11, 2016, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

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Mark Creighton
Junior
Posts: 21
From: Schodack, NY, USA
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted October 11, 2016 01:21 PM      Profile for Mark Creighton   Email Mark Creighton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Janice,

I found this video from MIT on creating a circuit board from a photo copy. MIT

They also make copper circuit boards that are photo sensitive to do the same thing.

Good luck with the repair.

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Paul Browning
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1002
From: West Midlands United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2011


 - posted October 11, 2016 01:48 PM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Janice, I have had boards completely blow the track off and leave no trace. So get your magnifier first, and have a good look at the tracks, they are very thin just a few thousandths of an inch thick, easily destroying if stray mains goes down one when it should not be there. You can create PCB'S with a good digital camera and photo editing software( like paintshop pro)to change the colour lines to black and then print on clear a4 sheets for the old overhead projectors.

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3432
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted October 11, 2016 04:31 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stop the presses!!! I can hardly contain my excitement [Smile] [Big Grin]

I fixed it!

When Phil said the damage didn't look that bad. I decided to try and repair the traces. After watching a couple videos on YouTube on repairing cracked circuit boards... I fired up my soldering iron and gave it a go.

There were 4 hairline breaks in the traces. I repaired those with some solder bridges. Now with the traces repaired I tested it again with the new T2 transistor installed...SUCCESS!!!! The motor started up and adjusting the pots raised and lowered the speed of the motor as well as the 18/24 selector switch on the front of the projector. It appears that the replacement NTE295 transistor was the last key to fixing the variable speed control.

I'm going to run it for a while to see that the power transistor doesn't get too hot and also run some test film to make sure it runs at the correct speeds.

[ October 11, 2016, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted October 11, 2016 11:47 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Great news Janice!
It just goes to show that persistance and a "never say die" approach, really does pay off!
Very well done here and to those who assisted with similar machines. [Smile] [Wink]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 668
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted October 12, 2016 01:28 AM      Profile for Phil Murat   Email Phil Murat   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Janice,

This is a Happy news !!!!!

"DOUBLE" CHAMPAGNE!!!

Troubleshooting is often time an "Exciting Game of Patience"

Very Good Job !!!, you are a chief (In France, we are also used to say "Respect" or "Chapeau")

There is a high probability the Power TR T° is right now much better , as current crossing it is properly calibrated now.

The Heatsink plate is offering a good size. Normally , T° around 40° is a reasonnable and acceptable estimation.......

Let us know !!

NB
In case in the future you need to work anymore "classical" PCB, check for the Iron power. 15w is enough for soldering tiny tracks and sensible components too. (associated to an Iron Narrow tip)
Moreover , remember : 5 seconds is the max time allowed for soldering many Electronic components without getting them to fail out.

If you are still interested in PCB "Reverse Engineering" take a look for that :

EASY EDA Tutorial

This is in English language and looks........very powerful

I have never used it , but, nothing to install or download, EASY EDA only works with any Web Navigator

[ October 12, 2016, 04:03 AM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 6944
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 12, 2016 06:06 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've been following this, but not chimed in because I don't know this machine.

If I had this problem I'd fake the damaged printed circuit board by building it up on vector board (because that's what I know).

That much being said, the next time I go to build something that I might have done using vector board, I'm going to look into making my own PCB instead! As long as the circuit wasn't going to need a lot of changes to work right, it would be much neater.

Nice job, all!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Jase Serre
Junior
Posts: 1
From: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Registered: Jan 2017


 - posted January 25, 2017 09:01 AM      Profile for Jase Serre   Email Jase Serre   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi everyone...i am a new user here. As per my knowledge problem is an Electrolytic capacitors which had dried out and makes a short circuit. Considering age of the projector, and cheapness of this components, very easy to find too, don't try to test it and renew directly.If capacitor original voltage is not available, choose upper rate, just the Capacitor size increase.

low cost pcb assembly

[ April 19, 2017, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Jase Serre ]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted January 25, 2017 05:00 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
New maybe Jase, spot on however, you are though!

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Manar El Harake
Junior
Posts: 2
From: Beirut, Lebanon
Registered: Apr 2019


 - posted April 11, 2019 07:57 AM      Profile for Manar El Harake     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My Sankyo Sound 600 was set to 110v and someone plugged it to 220v. it stopped working. any instructions for troubleshooting?

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