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Topic: GS1200 .......Affordable

Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted October 26, 2016 08:04 AM

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GoodMorning ELMO's Fans,

I have just received my GS1200 "PCOM"............ Bought for 330Euros only (Shipping costs included !!!) on a Typical "French" Site (NOT EBAY !!!)

It looks nice and clean conditions, seems to work normally , however I had not enough time to check all functions and possibilities.

I am very surprised !! : It's a very, very heavy machine (something like 20 Kg) and highly sophisticated.
At first glance, Electronic Systems are more advanced than My Beaulieu , then Electronics Material looks much better quality (This is just a feeling at this time)

The dark point is the "User Manual" furnished : It's only compatible with GS1200 "Standard". Nothing is mentionned for "PCOM" module setting.

Is it normal ?
Do somebody have document(s) concerning "PCOM" Functions ?

Thanks in advance

NB: When possible I put some pictures of it (Inside / Outside)

[ October 27, 2016, 03:32 AM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 26, 2016 10:40 AM

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Congratulations Phil on your new GS1200. These are wonderful machines when fully maintained. Very well built with no flimsy plastic bits, and really made to 16mm projector quality. Reliability can be an issue due to the complexity of the elctro-mechanical logistics, but all this means is that you nay at some point have to replace some relays and/or micro-switches that are still available. The film path may scratch if you do not replace the front green film guide. The good news is that the sound head will last just about forever, being made of a very hard magnetic alloy.
Good luck, and enjoy this great machine.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted October 26, 2016 11:06 AM

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Hi Paul,

Thanks for these informations.

However "PCOM" is the ultimate GS1200 version , and seems to be very rare to find (Paradox ?)

Electronic is more or less different for this one.

And the "PCOM" module functions are a mystery (for instance)......

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Maurice Leakey
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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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posted October 26, 2016 11:12 AM

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Phil
This old thread may help you.
http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001027

--------------------
Maurice

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted October 26, 2016 11:16 AM

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congratulations Phil. I hope your PCom still functions as it should and you enjoy this machine.

The GS does have many more motors and electronics,plus a heavier chassis overall than a Beaulieu, hence the additional weight.

As Paul points out, these can scratch when guides are worn so that is something you will have to build your confidence with over time.
It's is also worthy of note, it is not just the input guide on these that can be problematic after many years of use and wear.
There are up to seven potential black spots I'm reliably led to believe, so great care must be taken at all times and regular thorough examinations of the potential danger zones will be necessary.

Other than that, enjoy my friend! 😊😊

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted October 26, 2016 12:20 PM

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Hi Andrew,

I have played a "Test" short movie. The picture is very nice and stable, very good sound.............. and NO scatches are observed.

I have inspected the "nasty" guides, none of them show extra wear.

It seems this machine doesn't accumulate many operating hours....

Maurice, I understand the "Motorola" processor looks to be the "darker" point (further investigation to be done).

Also, just to play a movie without having to make specific recordings, BEAULIEU is a quiter machine easier to maintain

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted October 26, 2016 12:25 PM

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Well that can only be a good thing for you Phil in your quest with this one.

Stay vigilant my friend, at all times!😉

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted October 26, 2016 12:34 PM

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Both eyes full open, never asleep.....

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Tom Photiou
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From: Plymouth U.K
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posted October 26, 2016 02:25 PM

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330 euro's???? wow that is a great price and a lot of projector. Well done.
Be good to see a couple of pictures later on?? [Wink]

[Wink]

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Phil Murat
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From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted October 27, 2016 03:24 AM

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Hi Tom ,

Some pictures :

Left Side Panel..........

Front Deck (Cover opened and some functions activated).
Counter is very efficient (Times or Frames can be selected, as necessary)

Lens 1.0 (???)

At this time, I have no idea how the "PCOM" module works (The "Add On" document wasn't furnished)

Is there any user to explain me how it works ?

I have an "emergency" work to carry out : The (nasty) Heads Holder is in terrible condition (multiple cracks & internal corrosion) even this is not obvious at first glance (Has to be replaced or.......Fully Reworked !!) :

I don't know if this part is still available.......

In fact, the weight of this machine is exactly 19,1kg (Ouffff)

The Bottom (PCOM Module) is full of components (A Main Card plus a secondary linked to the plugs, plus the card dedicated to the Command)
The main cards is showing many small processors (15 or 16 pins) and the big one is not "Motorola"(May be Mitsubishi) and seems to be something which needs to be loaded with instructions.

Either PCB's (Double lays Epoxy) and Electronics components seems to be High Grade matérial

To follow

[ October 31, 2016, 06:37 AM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted October 27, 2016 05:30 AM

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It's a thing of real beauty Phil,is the old P COM that's for sure!

Purchased for an outstandingly low price if it is still all fully functioning. Well done once again Phil with this one!

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Phil Murat
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From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted October 27, 2016 10:38 AM

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Hi Andrew,

Thanks for your comments.

Sometimes, things we treasure offer a funny background to complete the story

To give you more détails, When I found the advert it wasn't indicated any price at all.....
Just a "dark" picture appeared , I had to raise up brightness of my screen.....to figure what's going on !!

So calling up the vendor, I understood he wasn't the main owner. The (very old ?) original owner (His father in law) had passed away a few times ago.... Former's owner wife was cluttered up with all that stuff (The vendor told me she scrapped many films .....!!! Ouffff)

So I had just to make an offer ,300 E (Plus 30E Shipping Costs).... I could offer less, it should make same effect.

Also , this machine come from far away in south of France.
I had a pleasant conversation at phone with the vendor.....

[ October 31, 2016, 06:39 AM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted October 27, 2016 11:49 AM

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Well it really couldn't have fell into better hands Phil to give it a whole new lease of life!

From what I've seen of it, you have all the necessary skills to keep this beautiful machine alive and well for many many years to come. The lens alone can sell for £250 at times so you have stumbled upon one of THE best bargains there, that I've personally ever seen.

I wish you well with it Phil and many many hours of wonderful screening from it in the years that lie ahead! 😊😊

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Browning
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From: West Midlands United Kingdom
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posted October 27, 2016 11:49 AM

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Good find Phil. Never seen one of these before, is it a telecine machine ?.Its a series 3 base machine but I would be concerned about the sound head and more to the point how and where its been stored, definitely a good look inside and check over before powering it up. Great find though especially at that price.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted October 27, 2016 11:53 AM

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They are a standard 3 bladed GS 1200 Paul, not intended for Telecine use (no 5 blade shutter plus standard lamp in these).

All will be MK 3 versions when found as these were some of the very last deluxe models made by Elmo to give even more advanced recording facilities to their armoury.

It was a little like a S940 at the time, only better still!

The desk on these adds significant sophistication to what was already the most complex Super 8mm Projector ever made and if you manage to find all the extra instruction and service information for one of these, which now is difficult to find,
You surely have one of THE best recording tools ever to be seen on Super 8mm!

This machine is well worth all the effort and TLC it can be given to restore it further to all of its former glory!

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted October 27, 2016 12:15 PM

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Andrew, 250Euros for lens 1.0 .......Oufff , is it realy justified

Paul, reading head is in pretty good condition,however the head carrier is terrible (Alloy low quality grade).
There is no "classical" damp evidences (I mean corrosion on srews, for exemple)

When possible, I come back with pictures from PCOM Module electronics cards and structure

[ October 28, 2016, 03:14 AM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

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Paul Browning
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posted October 27, 2016 12:53 PM

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I wonder if the previous owner had used generous amounts of cleaner or lube on the film regulary, hence the build up and corrosion of this metal/alloy, this part is plated with nickel plating, I wonder where the bits have ended up in the machine though, perhaps if the machine was not cleaned as well inside, the oxide from the sound stripe could turn into a slurry that would stick to everything, and could certainly build up in this area. Can you get a clearer picture phil please, I would like to see what this has done to this metal part.

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted October 27, 2016 01:08 PM

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Paul, I do my possible to post an enlarge and more precise picture from this part.

My feeling is that this projector doesn't accumulate lot of hours, as the former owner used it for family movie merely.
(As I can observe by the plastic guides conditions as witnesses)

The material used for the Head Carrier is probably Zamac Alloy (Zinc / Alluminium) which turn to "cancer" over time...

NB

Can anybody confirm me or not if this carrier is exactly the same design on ST1200 and interchangeable? ???

May I can open a TIP just for this particular point

[ October 27, 2016, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Phil Murat ]

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted October 28, 2016 03:07 AM

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Hi Paul,
I am back with some closed pictures from Heads Carrier.

Terrible, I nicknamed it "Omaha Beach" !!

We can see corrosion pushing up below NiCd Coating

Fortunately, ONLY this part from the machine is showing this condition (May be a factory defect !!!)

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted October 28, 2016 04:23 AM

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Might be a job for Edwin, Phil.

If one can look like this, surely others could go the same way.

Wouldn't be too difficult to replicate by the looks of things. [Smile]

[Smile]

[Wink]

Failing that of course, there is always an ultrasonic cleaning bath for such things, so long as the coating isn't of too much importance to you.
Film path guide built in contains a crack or two though from what I can make out from the photo.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015

posted October 28, 2016 05:50 AM

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Andrew, that could be interesting providing Edwin can work with CNC Milling Machine.

That could be "cloned" from aluminium or brass material (No steel due to heads proximity....)

But what about the cost, this is an other story.....

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted October 28, 2016 05:52 AM

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I was simply thinking of a 3D print Phil, or perhaps would this not suffice?

As for costs Phil, even if you decided to have one milled from a small aluminium block, does it really come into it for a machine of this excellence if everything else can be made A1 for reasonable expenditure?

These were an incredibly expensive machine when new and in today's money would be well over £5000, probably nearer to 10K! [Wink]

[Wink]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Tom Photiou
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From: Plymouth U.K
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posted October 28, 2016 06:28 AM

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Phil that is a great bargain and a lovely looking machine.
I am sure that Leon Norris will have a head holder for you,
I could be wrong here but i think the head holder may be the same as the ST1200HD, i only say this as i recently purchased two brand new head pressure pad assembly's from Leon and these are definatly the same as the HD so the actual part you need may also be the same, He will surly let you know, or confirm first with Mr Parsons.
A great purchase at that price though. [Wink]

[Wink]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted October 28, 2016 06:34 AM

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Now you come to mention it Tom, from memory, I'm sure you may be right! [Smile]

[Smile]

[Smile]

[Wink]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Mathew James
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From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014

posted October 28, 2016 07:09 AM

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This machine makes me drool...You've done very well Phil!

As for the head piece...I have never seen brass(or bronze) crack like that??? Must be some weird alloy inside.
Brass is a mixture of copper and tin, whereas Bronze is copper and zinc. both metals could potentially contain small proportions of other elements including arsenic, phosphorus, aluminium, manganese, and silicon, which could crack over time, but as you mention, this looks like a factory blemish.

I cannot see why this part could not be made by Edwin, should Leon not have one(which is unlikely he wont). Is there a reason it needs to be heavier?
What a great looking machine. That 1.0 lens is worth the price alone almost...

--------------------
--
Cheers,
Matt 📽

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