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Author Topic: Help needed from ALL forum members
Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted January 16, 2017 10:14 AM      Profile for Del Phillipson   Email Del Phillipson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Right guys, this is the question.

What would you film collectors say is an acceptable amount of splices for a supposedly "Excellent" condition modern Derann print, 4 x 600' mounted on two 1200' spools, let's say at a cost to you of £260.00.

I would like as much feedback as possible with this please.

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4077
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 16, 2017 10:22 AM      Profile for Joe Caruso   Email Joe Caruso   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No more than 2, to splice endtails together - All else should be intact I think - Cheers, Shorty - If this is a rarae or wanted feature, then by all means

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Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted January 16, 2017 10:26 AM      Profile for Del Phillipson   Email Del Phillipson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Shorty, I will reveal more at a later time, keep the input coming guys please.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1629
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 16, 2017 10:35 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, depends on the type of splice, but I'm being Devil's Advocate.

Brand new Derann prints were sold as potentially containing lab slices.

As the lab stock used was unpredictable, a lab slice could occur once or even twice in just a single 200ft.

Sorry, but fact.

As we know, Derann would always exchange if the customer was unhappy.

Del, what type of splice are you seeing? Some of the lab slices could be pretty darn messy.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4954
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 16, 2017 10:38 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, my Derann print of the trailer to Saving Private Ryan has a lab splice about 1 minute into the trailer! I don't see splices as objectionable as long as they are infrequent.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1629
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 16, 2017 10:46 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, Paul, I remember my brand new trailer of "Evita" having such a bad lab splice that it lost gate.

Return, or simply cut out the 2 frames of mess?

Also, my original "Lion King" print part 1; two lab splices...I returned and received a new print with apologies. Even though the original ran sort of
OK.

Del, could you describe or photo the splices?

May not be the seller's fault?

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1478
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted January 16, 2017 11:00 AM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would say one per 600' in the content I could live with. I have some prints with lab splices that are hardly noticable when screening. But if some content is missing then I would be leary.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4820
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 16, 2017 11:45 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i would agree with that, one per 600ft anything else is what has been done by the previous collector, other than leaders and tails re-spliced if it was on large reels and put back to originals. [Wink]

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Stuart Reid
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 718
From: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Feb 2009


 - posted January 16, 2017 12:02 PM      Profile for Stuart Reid   Email Stuart Reid   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yep, 1 per 600ft would sound acceptable. Are there any other print issues? Scratches, wear?

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1229
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted January 16, 2017 01:27 PM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd say no splices if it was in excellent condition and £260, where the film's joined is fine though.Mark

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Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted January 16, 2017 02:51 PM      Profile for Del Phillipson   Email Del Phillipson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well guys I've watched the print in question and lost count of the number of splices to both 1200' spools, I will make a detailed inspection tomorrow but if I was hazarding a guess I would say around 10 per 1200' spool and none of those were lab splices (I can accept those). It's clear the guy has cut the film into sections to re record it into Spanish and then spliced it back together again. There was also a lot of I would call it speckled dust and I mean a lot, not in the EXCELLENT condition the seller has stated and no there was NO mention of any splices in his description whatsoever, it's now in the hands of ebay, has anyone else had a similar experience and what was the outcome?

P.S. fantastic feedback, much appreciated [Wink]

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 16, 2017 04:32 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
He's about 16 splices too high. Obviously, due to his re recording antics he or somebody must have been doing it in 10 minute segments.

Other people's splicing skills or lack of them used to irk me too

[Mad] [Mad] Use the right splicer have decent eyesight and use the right tape (yes I did say tape not GLUE ) and you shouldn't technically see the join especially as he is re joining without removing frames.

On Ebay front if you are unhappy or can't live with it press for full refund. Photograph a few splices doubt ebay staff would know what a splice was, He will have to pay for return shipping of his masterpiece .

Slap it into him for doing a sloppy DIY job. [Big Grin]

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1422
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted January 16, 2017 04:55 PM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Obviously far too many splices for a film described in excellent condition, but although you paid £260 you dont give the title. This of course can make a big difference value wise but does not excuse the poor description.

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Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted January 17, 2017 03:55 AM      Profile for Del Phillipson   Email Del Phillipson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great point Mike, I will reveal the exact print and more details later when I sort this out with ebay as the seller has point blank refused me a return saying the film had an acceptable amount of splices. Hence the asking you good people your valuable opinions on what is actually acceptable.

My take is this, excellent means no excess splices, meaning I would expect 1 for the two 600' spools to be spliced together and that is it, as mentioned I would expect a near perfect film, I could live with the odd 1 more in case of damage or whatever but that would be it. More than that, it is not excellent and yes it devalues the film in my opinion.

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 17, 2017 04:26 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I am purchasing a print I expect maybe 2 or 3 splices on a 1200ft reel. Head leader, tail, and one in the middle. Anything more than that should be noted in the auction. Many splices is not a fun find. Even if the splice is good you can always hear it when it goes pass the gate.

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Dave Groves
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 506
From: Southend on Sea, Essex, UK
Registered: Feb 2015


 - posted January 17, 2017 04:42 AM      Profile for Dave Groves   Email Dave Groves   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd expect an excellent print to be just that. Splices mean the film has been broken or cut and that's not acceptable on an asking price of £260.00. Most of us would find odd splices unwanted but acceptable, especially if it's a must have title that's scarce. Problem now is that as prints change hands from people in the know with well maintained machines to beginners/careless people who don't even clean their gates regularly, the excellent will, over time become downgraded. In this instance I'd be asking for your money back.

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Dave

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted January 17, 2017 04:57 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
As I've already said to Del and in slight opposition to what Alan says above, I'd be happy to accept a splice from re spooling from 800ft reels down to 600ft ones again also.

I would notify the potential buyer of this however.

I find its only realistic nowadays to expect some re spooling to have taken place over the years to accommodate the various capacities of the various machines these films have most likely been used upon over the years, by this late stage of the game

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 17, 2017 05:43 AM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The number of splices being talked about is way above acceptable. Ask for a full refund and push with either eBay or Paypal. It is like pink prints don't accept or buying a collector cd with smudge marks or marmalade on it.

No matter what the title is its not worth £260 for somebody's botch job.

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1759
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted January 17, 2017 07:38 AM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That number is only acceptable on a re-edited Derann UA composite of digests of a film that couldn't be sold as concurrent parts, as far as I am concerned.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1629
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 17, 2017 10:46 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would certainly have expected that amount of splices to have been mentioned in the discription.

I think the sale is unfair otherwise.

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Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted January 17, 2017 10:59 AM      Profile for Del Phillipson   Email Del Phillipson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well guys, I've gone through the print again and there is a total of 21 splices over the two reels, 13 on reel 1 and 8 on reel 2. The seller refused me a return stating it was an acceptable amount of splices (not that he actually mentioned any at all), just waiting for my day in ebay's court now.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted January 17, 2017 11:26 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I entirely agree with Rob and I wish you luck with your appeal.

I'd be very very surprised if it wasn't found in your favour Del.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1422
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted January 17, 2017 11:59 AM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well Mike I would take issue with you on that point. I would pay a LOT more than
£260 for a very splicey print of 'Hats Off'😉

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4820
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 17, 2017 12:08 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I tell you what, if that guy says its an acceptable amount of splices theirs only one word i would use to describe the rest of his collection if thats typical of a film from it,
poo!!
That is not acceptable for £260 when its described as excellent condition, its been cut up how is that excellent?
Surely ebay must agree that "it is not as described", had that have been one of my listings i would say if it had splices, even if just the leader & tail. This is the sort of listing that makes people lose any faith they have left in ebay. The administrators have a lot to answer for.(of ebay i mean [Big Grin] [Wink] )

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Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted January 17, 2017 12:34 PM      Profile for Del Phillipson   Email Del Phillipson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
will post the outcome next week, then reveal all, film, seller etc. He has sold others, would love to know if they arrived in the same state, I would have thought so with them also being re recorded into Spanish.

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