8mm Forum


  
my profile | my password | search | faq | register | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» 8mm Forum   » 8mm Forum   » External speaker question (Page 2)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: External speaker question
Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted January 18, 2017 06:41 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
For just a straightforward plug in extension speaker for our projectors, there's not so many, thinking about it, that didn't have a ready tailor made solution, offered by the manufacturer's of each machine for this dilemma.

On Super 8mm
Bauer did, Elmo did an accessory ext speaker.
So did Eumig, Beaulieu and Braun even sold their units with one without any internal.

On 16mm
It seems many have built in speaker(s) into their outer covers.

All of these I see crop up from time to time on ebay.

Even specialist purpose built speakers like the Craven ones Rob describes, I see occasionally on ebay still.

Plenty to go at anyhow, that's for sure.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 18, 2017 06:44 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you so much for all the replies. I sure envy all the electronics knowledge you all have. I'm just a guy who turns on the projector, threads the film and sits back and enjoys the show. All this has been so helpful. To answer the question as to which projectors I use... I have a Chinon 7000 and a Eumig 810 (Super 8 only).

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 18, 2017 06:44 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you so much for all the replies. I sure envy all the electronics knowledge you all have. I'm just a guy who turns on the projector, threads the film and sits back and enjoys the show. All this has been so helpful. To answer the question as to which projectors I use... I have a Chinon 7000 and a Eumig 810 (Super 8 only).

 |  IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted January 18, 2017 06:50 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
There is a ready made solution already out there for your Eumig Brad, which I'm sure would serve you're Chinon just as well.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 18, 2017 07:34 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Eumig is a 4 Ohm machine, better to stick with 8 for use with both.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted January 18, 2017 07:46 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Well observed Steve. I didn't realize Eumig machines were designed to output into 4 ohm ext speakers.

Are they all this way? (Eumig machines)

Probably the Elmo ones would be best suited then for use on a variety of machines.

Both the Bauer and Beaulieu ones are also 4 ohms.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 18, 2017 08:02 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not sure about all Eumigs, but I know the 800s are because I've been diddling with the idea of replacing the internal speaker on mine (it buzzes a little.) and I've been shopping for replacements. It's better just to run it through an amp anyway!

I think 4 Ohms is mostly from early car audio, you don't see that one too often these days. That nice oval speaker in the side of a Eumig 800 would be quite comfortable mounted in an old dashboard!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 18, 2017 10:56 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Even though the Eumig amplifiers were matched to a 4 ohm speaker load, they all work just fine with 8 ohm speakers. And of course there is no danger at all to the amplifier in using 8 ohm speakers. And a good quality 8 ohm speaker, such as the Bose bookshelf speakers, will knock the sox off the Eumig 4ohm extension speakers.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

 |  IP: Logged

David Roberts
Master Film Handler

Posts: 405
From: Suffolk. England
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted January 19, 2017 03:04 AM      Profile for David Roberts     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
we have a chain of shops over here called "Richer sounds" that sell hi-fi cheaply and I recently purchased a pair of small 2 way speakers from them for £40. these work very well with my Bauer projectors.

 |  IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted January 19, 2017 03:52 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I was really surprised by how good the Bauer ones sound as extension speakers on their matched units.

Strangely enough, not so good on other machines though, but on the 610, they sound great!

As you say David, for just an extension speaker solution, the world's your oyster really.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

 |  IP: Logged

Martin Davey
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Southampton UK
Registered: Dec 2011


 - posted January 19, 2017 06:40 AM      Profile for Martin Davey   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Davey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I got my first sound projector in 1982 (chinnon 7800H) I always used an external speaker/ external amp system with the speaker by the front screen right from day one. I wanted to create the right presentation for the films and using the little internal speaker was an absolute no-no. I have never understood why some people watch entire feature films hearing the sound through the internal speaker.
Nowadays films are shown through what ever AV amp is in current use in my (predominantly a blu ray) set up, with the cine films audio occupying the centre channel as expected, the 6.5 ft width wall mounted screen used for all formats.
Regarding the 'academy curve' I find the 'boomy' base quite unpleasant on super 8 releases of Dolby originated films. The sound on old academy curve films sound pleasant as the low and high frequency's are balanced to allow for the poor sound recording and playback inherent on all film formats at the time.
The academy curve was used to solve the problem of heavy base combined with poor high frequency response during the early 1930s. Basically the base was trimmed off to make a more pleasing but, on paper, a less dynamic range track, which made the audio better balanced for greater audibility. It was difficult for the audio chain at the time to record and play back high frequencies.
Dolby tracks did not use the academy curve and as we know greatly improved the sound of 35mm optical, both on the bass and high frequencies during the 70s. But this development did not benefit the super 8 stripe with its poor high frequency response. I often heard the sound demonstrations at the BFCC and found the latest blockbuster release would sound quite bad, being just full of heavy, muddy base and virtually no high frequency information no matter how good the speaker/ amp were, compared to an 'old' film shown during the same show, despite the great efforts of all concerned. The bigger bass response means that the high frequencies also have to be well recorded to compensate for a pleasing, balanced sound. The DVD sync'd did sound good as would be expected at the BFCC. I have not had the pleasure of hearing a home re-record however, from a DVD source but suspect this would stand a chance of being respectable.

 |  IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted January 19, 2017 06:57 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
It is indeed Martin, a vast vast improvement over the original recordings in almost all cases.
This is even more prevalent with many of the later prints from Derann.
Obviously it cannot however, ever compare to the original lossless and noiseless sources provided by the discs themselves.
For this method, there is only the "live"pulse sync option of course, as the BFCC often used.

Thanks for your detailed and informative input here. It made great reading! [Smile]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

 |  IP: Logged

Martin Davey
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Southampton UK
Registered: Dec 2011


 - posted January 19, 2017 08:40 AM      Profile for Martin Davey   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Davey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Andrew. I come to this forum once a day actually, but only as a lurker to enjoy reading everyone's posts!

 |  IP: Logged

Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 21, 2017 01:12 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
...I've really got to stick my professional neck in here just one last time, even though I think I'll regret it...

Sound is a measurable and controllable element of motion picture and television presentation...

I won't even begin to talk about it because that's why the internet exists and I'm going to refrain.

There are a lot of knowledgeable resources out there.

Also, Steve, please enlighten me on this post which I really do not understand fully;

"I'll have to say: this is as thoroughly as we've ever answered a question here!

-Brad?

...Brad???!!!

I think the consensus here is find one simple, cheap old 8 ohm speaker, plug it into the DIN socket and see where it takes you. (BTW: Steve Osborne sells the plugs...)

The first time I tried this I learned about chatter, but that's a story for another day!

(-You start people talking about sound...!)"

Sorry, but some of this insinuation bothers me, more precisely,

""I'll have to say: this is as thoroughly as we've ever answered a question here!

(-You start people talking about sound...!)"

Can you clarify what you mean by this; i.e - and I will be blunt, are my comments not welcome?

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 21, 2017 01:41 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If there is an insinuation here, it must be very subtle, since I am not aware of making one.

Nobody's comment were unwelcome, I was actually praising them. Yes, my post was immediately after yours, but it was not about you.

I was simply enjoying how someone asks a simple question, and before the original poster even posts again this very lively discussion about many aspects of sound gets going.

Film people get excited about sound. I get that: I'm one of them. I've stepped over too many wires on the floor at CineSea (-including my own) not to.

If the discussion bothered me I sure wasn't showing it: I actively joined in.

No offense intended, no apologies offered either.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 21, 2017 02:05 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I never even thought about an apology? For what? Why do you need to apologies?

I simply asked are my comments no longer welcome?

And may I add, in my somewhat self-inflicted
limited time left here, are my posts no longer valid?

See, Steve, you could have left it at that, "no offence", but then you had to add, "no apologies..."

I don't think we get on and as you seem to largely dominate this forum I may have to go.

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 21, 2017 02:29 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since my posts were not about your comments in the least I would say that's a question I hadn't ever considered before.

This is one of those cases where a cigar really is a cigar. There weren't any encoded messages there. Read it line for line: It says what it says, nothing more. Nothing mean, nothing sinister, Nothing personal,-NOT about you, either.

You kind of surprise me here: this post came from my keyboard no worse than tongue in cheek. You seem determined to place some interpretation on it that I have trouble reading into it any way I try.

You are creating a battle of your own making, it's not mine.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 21, 2017 03:01 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Since my posts were not about your comments in the least I would say that's a question I hadn't ever considered before."

Alright then, Steve, I openly apologise if I have misinterpreted your own comments.

BTW,

"You are creating a battle of your own making, it's not mine."

No Battle.

Misunderstanding...

 |  IP: Logged

Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

Posts: 4554
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 21, 2017 03:03 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There appears to be a misunderstanding here.....Ooops! Rob beat me to it with his previous post.

Doug

--------------------
I think there's room for just one more film.....

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 21, 2017 03:05 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I accept that and I regret the whole thing. If I'd known my post would be interpreted that way I would have made it differently.

Seriously Rob: I didn't mean you at all.

I don't come here to battle people. This is kind of my "Pub".

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted January 21, 2017 05:42 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Its been a few years now, but for a while I thought there was something wrong with my speakers, they just did not sound right [Frown]

Anyway Yvonne my better half got a bout of glue ear thanfully all well now, so I took her to the ear specialist, however she had to have a full hearing check before a meeting with a specialist. I was fasinated how this young lady did all this through her lap top etc. After Yvonne was finished and the report was printed out, I asked her if there was any chance of having it done myself. At a cost of $150 its quite expensive, but very thorough.. so away I went she did it that morning.

I thought I did well, but to my surprise I failed badly in the mid and upper ranges, my hearing was a lot worse than I thought. She recommended that I should consider hearing aids rather sooner than later. Lucky for me the govt would pay for it if it was down to damage caused by my past, and not old age. After more hearing tests and a visit to a hearing specialist, once again I was surprised that I qualified for assistance. After getting fitted out I was surprised what I can now hear....its really amazing and the people that tested and fitted them were brilliant to deal with.

Whats this got to with sound and speakers? well they are only as good as your two tiny eardrums and your brain that can process it all. I told the hearing lady that I can hear music a lot better in the mid to high range, but the down side I told her is that I can now hear the wife telling me what to do [Big Grin] ...she smiled with that one [Wink]

 |  IP: Logged

Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted January 21, 2017 08:08 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This thread reminds me that I mentioned some time ago in another the common problem I had putting 8 and 16mm projectors through a modern speaker. I'd bought a new, solid PA-type speaker to use when presenting shows in public halls. It handles 100 watts RMS and the price was amazingly low - around £35 including delivery. I think this is the same one, albeit for a far higher price:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PASSIVE-DISCO-PA-SPEAKER-10-100W-RMS-/39 1618976344?hash=item5b2e4f5a58:g:NboAAOSwA3dYQV19

It produced excellent full-bodied sound better than any speaker I had used before, EXCEPT you now and again heard an annoying distorted 'edge' to the sound coming from a high-frequency horn. My solution may horrify some readers but in the end I asked my brother (who has good electronics knowledge, so nothing could go wrong), to disconnect the horn, so sound only came from the main speaker. I can't guarantee this would work well with every speaker, but it was certainly ideal for me, and much easier than finding a speaker of comparable quality without a horn or tweeter!

--------------------
Adrian Winchester

 |  IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted January 21, 2017 11:42 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
You simply turned your ears Adrian, into those of Graham's before he had his hearing aid fitted,by doing so.

PA Speakers at this price point tend to use very crude cheap piezo horns without a crossover producing many a nasty shrill and clicking /clacking sound besides the actual desired ones.

Had these had been EV or Mackie PA speakers,to name but two, no such disconnection would have proved necessary, or indeed beneficial.

I bet she'd never heard that one before btw Graham! 😂😂😏

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2