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Author Topic: Kodak's new super 8 camera
Paul Adsett
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From: USA
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 - posted February 02, 2017 08:53 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here is video from the past few days of Kodak's new camera at CES 2017, and the latest film test footage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq1vP0viRO8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXzv_F07BNo

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted February 02, 2017 11:25 PM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Very Nice.
It's alot bigger than I thought it would be, especially with the big nikon lens [Smile]
The video footage looks much better this time around.

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--
Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Tom Spielman
Master Film Handler

Posts: 339
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2016


 - posted February 03, 2017 12:02 AM      Profile for Tom Spielman   Email Tom Spielman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had my doubts that that camera would ever see the light of day. But it's come a long way and seems pretty well thought out. The interchangeable lenses will give it a lot of versatility.

It is definitely on the large side and personally I can't see spending the money on one. I just picked up a Canon 518 SV for $30. That's about my speed. [Wink]

But if the existence of a camera like that makes film more readily available, I hope they sell lots of them.

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Janice Glesser
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From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted February 03, 2017 01:47 AM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I want one [Smile]

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted February 03, 2017 01:49 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
It looks like it's made from from Lego with that shiny white plastic boxy look.

I laughed when they tried palming off on "newbies" that the reason it has an SD slot is to record the sound because of course, Super 8mm film never had sound!

Oh really.

Nah, if this is as good as it gets, downloading your 3min £50-60 film onto U Tube along with some elevator jazz, you can keep it for me.

No mention of reversal stock or a chance to have the film back in the traditional manner to view the traditional way.

Everything is either cute or cool.
well to my perspective, this camera is neither.

This is all I would ever want from the Kodak company please..
 -

Just this thanks so I can place it into a proper camera with real aesthetic beauty and technical supremacy, not some Lego model of one!

 -

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dominique De Bast
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 - posted February 03, 2017 03:40 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What a negative comment, Andrew. It is just a miracle that there is a new super 8 Kodak camera in 2017. They obviousely wanted to bring to the market something different from what is already existing. I share your regret that there is no sound on the film instead of this sd card and I personnaly don't see the interest of having film digitilizated but this new camera is still a great new as it may bring new interest in super 8 and in real film in general.

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Dominique

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
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 - posted February 03, 2017 04:55 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kodak are bringing back reversal Ektachrome film, first for analog photography then for the new camera. This was announced at CES last month.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Tom Spielman
Master Film Handler

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From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
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 - posted February 03, 2017 07:28 AM      Profile for Tom Spielman   Email Tom Spielman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andrew: I agree that aesthetically it leaves something to be desired. If it were waterproof or something I might forgive the look. [Wink]

I hope that the final version will be a little more compact.

The lack of a sound stripe I consider regrettable but understandable. I believe that this camera has a widened gate which I don't think leaves room for a sound stripe. However, in the end you end up with a better picture and better sound.

The big downside is that projecting in the traditional way is not what film from this camera is intended for. It is definitely targeted at digital output. Again, regrettable, but understandable. They aren't selling new projectors to go with these new cameras, -at least not yet. And honestly, I'd want to digitize anything I'd shoot on Super 8 anyway. I think most people do.

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Bill Phelps
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 - posted February 03, 2017 07:36 AM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I project what I shoot. I'm happy about the new camera.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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 - posted February 03, 2017 08:36 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm pretty sure I will not be getting one. (Priorities...)

-but the good thing about it is at least it's a sign that Kodak is still committed to the gauge and there may be other things as a result.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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 - posted February 03, 2017 08:41 AM      Profile for Mathew James   Email Mathew James   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I may end up going this route myself since it is currently affordable:

How To Shoot On Super 8 Film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRqAxhykP_4
{and how to chop wood apparently [Smile] }

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Cheers,
Matt 📽

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Paul Adsett
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From: USA
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 - posted February 03, 2017 09:58 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the big news here is that Kodak have announced in this video that Super 8 Ektachrome reversal film will be back on sale this year, and of course this can be used in the new camera, just as well as negative film stock, and you can project the film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAJCN2TfCGw

[ February 03, 2017, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Paul Adsett ]

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Terrance Kott
Junior
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From: Kalamazoo, MI, USA
Registered: Jan 2017


 - posted February 03, 2017 08:49 PM      Profile for Terrance Kott   Email Terrance Kott   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Can I use NOS film stock with this camera? I have a few rolls in my freezer from the late 1980's and early 1990's. The cartridges look similar but are they? This is film stock from "Process before 02/1990 09" As you can see I used it [in my Elmo Super 8 Sound 1000S Macro Movie Camera] for our Osborn family reunion in 2014 but have not had it developed yet. Where does one get Super 8mm sound film developed? Versus the cost of building your own setup?
Edited to add: I see that it only does the 8mm film in the old format but does the sound on an SD card. I take it this means I have to dub the sound it at a later date....

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Adrian Winchester
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 - posted February 03, 2017 10:58 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester   Email Adrian Winchester   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
While I'd also prefer a more compact size, I like the wheel offering the various options on the screen; that's using modern technology in a very positive way. I note one option is "viewfinder", so I hope the menu this offers includes framing for those who are shooting with conventional projection in mind.

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Adrian Winchester

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William Olson
Master Film Handler

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From: Poughkeepsie, NY USA
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 - posted February 04, 2017 10:12 AM      Profile for William Olson   Email William Olson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andrew, I appreciate what you're saying. It should be all about quality of image. The old well precisioned optics and mechanisms achieved this.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted February 05, 2017 02:20 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Indeed, and what Kodak always did best, was simply producing outstanding film products to place into our cameras, not outstanding cameras themselves.

Be honest, from all of the choice available in 1982, how many people would have opted to buy a kodak camera above all others?

No one I know, that's for sure.
Nothing's changed by the looks of things.

If they had spoken of offering a striping service during processing even, I'd be happy with recording on an SD card
during filming, to transfer it later after processing.

I don't want or require a wider gate, just the one we always had!

Putting the sound only on an SD card to my mind,they may as well not bother making a sound camera in the first instance, unless of course, you want to sit at home watching your 3 minute creations at £50 -£60 a throw on a digital projector or worse still a computer screen or television set.

By this time, you may as well have cut out the middle man and shot the thing on digital and used after effects.
Pointless exercise to my mind,this current marketing ploy.

Just give us the film and hopefully a global striping service. [Confused]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Brian Fretwell
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 - posted February 05, 2017 04:53 AM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wonder if Sync signals are recorded on the SD card, if so it would be like going back to using a tape recorder with a sync track, before sound on film cameras. Of course, if it did there would be a chance of transfer later to striped film or running in sync with the GS1200 etc.

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

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From: Croydon, London, UK
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 - posted February 05, 2017 09:18 AM      Profile for Adrian Winchester   Email Adrian Winchester   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm a bit dismayed by the number of negative posts here, which remind me of the hostility I've seen from digital filmmakers elsewhere, who are clearly irritated by any implication that film - a medium they have rejected as obsolete - can still offer something worthwhile today. If Kodak executives are dropping in here to get a sense of feedback from the '8mm community', they could easily come to the conclusion "why should we bother?"

While I wouldn't say that the camera is exactly what I'd personally request - and I'd hope the non-limited edition version costs a LOT less - I still feel that we should be applauding this as great news that could be a highly-influential element of at least a modest revival in the profile and use of film. I wouldn't assume that Kodak executives are completely lacking an insight into what their potential customers want, and the remarkable number of glowing endorsements on their website from prominent directors and others in the film world has to be a good sign.

To mention two points raised, I'm far from convinced that the old-style framing and stripe sound would bring more sales from today's potential buyers, and obviously the level of sales is very important in terms of Kodak's future support for Super 8. Not long ago, practically everyone would have thought that the launch of such a camera - and the return of a colour Kodak reversal stock - was inconceivable, so another 'miracle' such as the return of Kodak striping might just happen one day, IF people get behind these first steps and encourage them to take more. As for the 'Max-8' gate, I don't see why this should be seen as a problem so long as they provide a means to see traditional framing while shooting. I suspect they will, as they are bound to think that some reversal stock will end up being projected.

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Adrian Winchester

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Andrew Woodcock
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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted February 05, 2017 02:21 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
So tell me Adrian, as this camera has everything you want it to have, how do you intend viewing your finished shoot?

Also please inform me of how you intend to view the whole frame on Max 8 shot film, using a traditional projection method to view your films?

If the gate can be traditionally cropped at the new camera gate to give also the traditional sized frame, then it goes without saying that the film could potentially take a stripe if they wanted to serve their loyal customer base as well as its new one.

I'd equally be interested to know if you have ever purchased a Kodak Super 8mm camera previously?

I am not condoning Kodaks new marketing ploy if anyone is interested in viewing Super 8mm film digitally, but I simply believe it could also consider and serve its traditional users better than it currently appears they are going to do.

I personally, will never shoot Super 8mm film to then view it digitally. I simply cannot see the point in it, but for anyone who can justify £60 for 3 minutes of viewing in this manner, good luck to them.

As you say, if WE get anything at all out of all this, then it's better than what we currently have.
I just feel they were way too hasty in the first place, calling time on what they now see as a good new product to relaunch again.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Adrian Winchester
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From: Croydon, London, UK
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 - posted February 05, 2017 03:03 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester   Email Adrian Winchester   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andrew - to answer your questions:

"So tell me Adrian, as this camera has everything you want it to have, how do you intend viewing your finished shoot?"
I didn't say it has everything I'd want it to have, but I broadly welcome the differences in comparison to S8 cameras of the 1970s/80s, because it's not difficult to find working cameras from this period - I already have one.
I'd view my film via projection.

"Also please inform me of how you intend to view the whole frame on Max 8 shot film, using a traditional projection method to view your films?"
I DON'T intend to view the whole frame. The 'extra' part of the frame would be irrelevant to my framing of images when shooting, except if I got involved in a very different sort of project that needed the added width.

"If the gate can be traditionally cropped at the new camera gate to give also the traditional sized frame, then it goes without saying that the film could potentially take a stripe if they wanted to serve their loyal customer base as well as its new one."
I doubt if there will be a means of traditionally cropping the film. What I'm reasonably confident of is that there will be an option via the screen that enables the owner to clearly see the traditional framing, if/when that's the aspect ratio they require. I agree that the film could potentially take a stripe - and I'd be all for it. But it's so long since striped film has been produced that I suspect that at the moment Kodak are far from convinced that there's a lot of demand. If it's true that they used to throw away a lot of their striped stock due to one problem or another (and I once heard the staggering amount of 50% claimed), that won't help to encourage them.

"I'd equally be interested to know if you have ever purchased a Kodak Super 8mm camera previously?"
I haven't, but on the two occasions around 1983-84 that I've bought a brand new Super 8 camera, I don't recall seeing any available, so I wasn't actively avoiding them.

[ February 05, 2017, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

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Adrian Winchester

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted February 05, 2017 03:28 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for your detailed explanation there Adrian

It pleases me that I'm at least not totally alone in just wanting to watch any future films I ever may shoot, using the traditional methods of doing so

I am in no doubt whatsoever that the company does a complete swerve to avoid any such questions regarding the potential for striped stock again, purely and simply based on the financial implications of doing so.

I agree that technology has advanced so much since the old mag stripe days that more modern day systems of mixing digital sound with analogue photography would be a completely logical and sensible way to progress while still satisfying the entire prospective market for their future film products.

For this to be fully realized however, I feel they'd need to follow up with either new projection equipment that could accept and synchronize from a SD card, picture and sound, or at the very least, provide end users with a device that would do this on any traditional projector by the use of an encoder sprocketed clamp on wheel or the likes linked to a sync box that they could potentially market for all of its traditional customers.

With this in place, plus reversal stock made and given the same priority as negative stock, I feel they could attract and satisfy a whole array of customers all with their own personal intentions of end usage.

Then the project really would become a One For All project.

Potentially this could be really exciting times ahead from this company, but I feel they just have to market the project correctly to avoid similar pitfalls that have been seen previously by a whole host of photographic companies and various projects that turned out to be a total flop from a sales and marketing prospective.

Over the years I've purchased many different products from Kodak.
Not so far back I purchased a photograph printer that was standalone unit that included a docking station for its own digital cameras in the early days of their availability.

I bought one as a present for my Mum at the time as I knew she would never entertain trying to do this on a pc despite the fact she loved to still take plenty of photographs of her days out and the grandchildren etc.

The inks and paper all cost a fortune but I was happy to buy these products for her as it gave her the independence of doing these things she enjoys.

Just like with K40S then K40, 100D etc etc, they abruptly pulled the plug on these products almost overnight and therefore rendered some rather expensive equipment in its prime, completely useless

This was after a very short time since launching the initiative, and it is these kind of actions that have led to many a disgruntled customer at times, myself very much included.

All products need to be supported through good times and bad for them to have successful longevity and build up a loyal fan base.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted February 05, 2017 03:58 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You're certainly not alone, Andrew. I want, like you, to project my films via a projector and not Watch them on a computer or a tv screen.

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Dominique

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted February 05, 2017 04:06 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Always good to hear Dominique and my frustrations with this future product release lie only with its total emphasis given seemingly with its intended digital users.

I feel it would serve as nothing more than a flash in the pan marketing gimmick to these guys.I'm sure many of its prospective customer base would soon lose interest once they realize to the full extent, the full cost of shooting and then editing using real film.

After all, most of these guys will have been used to not having a care in the world regarding wasted footage etc if they have previously only ever shot digitally.

By opening the product range and associated equipment and supporting services to all potential users, they would certainly stand a much chance of success in the long term I feel.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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 - posted February 05, 2017 04:17 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As long as there is still the possibility to shoot and project with film, I see Nothing wrong with Kodak's new project. I would have prefered to see sound Kodachrome cartridges back (Ektachrome sound cartridges would have pleased me too) but the market is probably not high enough to cover the Investment and production costs.

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Dominique

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Graham Sinden
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From: Kent, UK
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 - posted February 05, 2017 05:27 PM      Profile for Graham Sinden   Email Graham Sinden   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Im still not sure who this new camera is aimed at. Im not even sure Kodak knows.

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