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Author Topic: Review Wolverine Reels2Digital MovieMaker 8mm film digitizer
Mike Spice
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 202
From: Chichester, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted December 11, 2017 10:05 AM      Profile for Mike Spice   Email Mike Spice   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bob Russell if time permits, i would scan each film on two different exposure settings, but keeping sharp focus each time, and then experiment in the edit.

I have to admit I have done very little post scan correction other than fps. I am on the older wolverine 720p

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Bob Russell
Junior
Posts: 5
From: Walnut Creek, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 2017


 - posted December 11, 2017 05:15 PM      Profile for Bob Russell   Email Bob Russell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike, by "sharp focus" do you mean set Sharpness on high?

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll try that.

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Mike Spice
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 202
From: Chichester, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted December 13, 2017 09:52 AM      Profile for Mike Spice   Email Mike Spice   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I always go for the sharpest focus setting in the menu, It may not work for you, but doing a few test runs at different settings will allow you find out what the machine can do.

it is time consuming, but doing a few different settings on the same film means you can see how the different settings affect certain types of film and exposure, it also means you can use different bits of scan in an edit later on.....

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Miguel Roman
Junior
Posts: 8
From: Granada, Spain
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted December 14, 2017 04:54 AM      Profile for Miguel Roman   Email Miguel Roman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello everyone: I've been with this forum for a long time, especially, the subject of telecinado of 8mm films.
Finally, I have decided; I purchased a few days ago: The Somikon HD-XL-Film Scanner. New engine, (3rd generation) new firmware 20 frames, etc.
The first tests; all right. but I have observed that also as it has been doing some, reels, begin the unrest and instability, that cough you have noticed in the Wolverine ...
I'm somewhat disappointed

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Joe Wein
Junior
Posts: 24
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted December 16, 2017 11:47 AM      Profile for Joe Wein   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Wein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you Robert for posting raw samples from the wolverine at 720. I did a clean-up with image stabilization in premiere, speed change, noise reduction, and color correction.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnA9ivyP8Xk&feature=youtu.be

I would LOVE to see some footage from the 1080 version and have a chance to see how it compares, if anyone has any footage directly from the new Wolverine with a 1080 file... THANK You!

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Pere Pasqual
Film Handler

Posts: 43
From: Gandia, València, Spain
Registered: May 2017


 - posted December 26, 2017 07:44 PM      Profile for Pere Pasqual   Author's Homepage   Email Pere Pasqual   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Pere Pasqual, there are great news about modifying our firmware if you can modifying this new firmware ???

Sorry for the delay! I just arranged this test site with my own modified firmwares, changing resolution and bitrate. Use at your own risk! (really there's not much risk of bricking the machine) and more to come soon!

http://retromania.pandelground.com/wolverine-reels2digital-moviemaker

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Jake Mayes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 119
From: Bath, UK
Registered: Sep 2012


 - posted December 26, 2017 07:59 PM      Profile for Jake Mayes   Email Jake Mayes   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As these post a JPG sequence just before making the movie which you can save if you remove the card before making the movie after capture, much of the image quality issues look like jpg compression artifacts. Can you reprogram your custom firmware to adjust the JPG compression rate to the lowest? That would mean you could save images of all frames in good quality. Good work with the firmwares!

I am going to give this a try. It would save much telecine costs if i could do my own as the quality seems acceptable and 1080p resolution is fine.

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Tom Tomlinson
Junior
Posts: 7
From: NYC
Registered: Jul 2012


 - posted December 26, 2017 10:17 PM      Profile for Tom Tomlinson   Email Tom Tomlinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was and still am having a power issue with the machine. I checked the voltage on the plug output & it measured 12V. I contacted support via phone & they sent another plug which still had no change.

I've had the machine about 3 weeks now & have yet to scan anything. I asked if I can get get a replacement unit. They said no & to send the unit in for repair.
To me, this says a lot.

I asked for them to let me know asap regarding its status/repair. I hope they follow thru. Because my finger is on the trigger to request my money back.

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Pere Pasqual
Film Handler

Posts: 43
From: Gandia, València, Spain
Registered: May 2017


 - posted December 27, 2017 07:30 PM      Profile for Pere Pasqual   Author's Homepage   Email Pere Pasqual   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Has anyone tried the modified firmwares?

I've uploaded a couple of new files - one is the original without any modification, that is, 960x720 4:3 at about half the bitrate of the modified ones, in case you want to go back to the maker's one. Beware that it doesn't has to be the same exact version you have, but I'm quite sure this one is one of the newest ones, as it allows cropping & more image sharpness settings.

There is another one I find very handy, in case you just want to convert to DVD. Adjust your cropping and start capturing - no need to convert the captured footage to DVD compliant resolution, avoiding resizing loses and an extra step which can be time-consuming. Oh, this is for PAL resolution (720x576); let me know if there's "market" for this and I'll upload a 720x480 version...

Sorry again but I'm short of time - as a last word, just to say that in the other forum there's people who says has flashed the Wolverine with the Somikon (https://www.pearl.de/support/product.jsp?pdid=NX4294) and getting 20 fps. Although I haven't checked it by myself and the firmware says @30fps when inspected. Also it is 14400 bps out of the box. Do at your own risk!

http://retromania.pandelground.com/wolverine-reels2digital-moviemaker

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Kurt Froberg
Junior
Posts: 14
From: Vasteras, Sweden
Registered: May 2017


 - posted December 28, 2017 05:32 AM      Profile for Kurt Froberg   Email Kurt Froberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Pere and thank you for your work with the firmware, very interesting!

I did a quick test with my Somikon HD-XL scanner and scanned around 30 sec of the same footage with:

- my original firmware for Somikon 1440 x 1080 30 fps
- the new f/w from Somikon with 1440 x 1080 20 fps
- your f/w 1440 x 1080 30 fps

The raw files properties showed like this:

- original Somikon 1440 x 1080: 30 fps, 14441 kbit/s
- new Somikon 1440 x 1080: 20 fps, 10003 kbit/s
- your 1440 x 1080: 30 fps, 16200 kbit/s

I then converted via MP4Box GUI all the files to 18 fps and the result was:

-original Somikon: 18 fps, 8851 kbit/s
- new Somikon: 18 fps, 8752 kbit/s
- your 1440 x 1080: 18 fps, 9929 kbit/s

Visually I can´t really see any difference between the clips. I guess it would need to be at least 20000 kbit/s at 18 fps to se a possible improvement but that is perhaps impossible with the current hardware?

Cheers
Kurt

[ December 29, 2017, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Kurt Froberg ]

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Pere Pasqual
Film Handler

Posts: 43
From: Gandia, València, Spain
Registered: May 2017


 - posted December 28, 2017 09:47 AM      Profile for Pere Pasqual   Author's Homepage   Email Pere Pasqual   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Kurt,

The thing is that my modifications, although uploaded later, where done *before* the Somikon firmware was released. So now my firmwares are mostly unnecessary, as what most of people was demanding was 1080p resolution and higher bitrate. Once the Somikon firmware was proven compatible with the original Wolverine, both goals were accomplished without further "hacking"... :/

Anyway, I'm sharing them so people can choose mainly between different capture resolutions.

The original bitrate of the Wolverine was about half the new one, and yeah, compression artifacts were highly noticeable. The current bitrate is a very high one, so I'm sure no one would ever notice any improvement going from near 10000 to 20000. Also note that bitrate will unavoidably decrease with lower framerate - you need a less amount of bits to store the information since you have less frames to store. So, all in all, near 10000 bits for such a low frame rate is such a big amount of "space" to encode the information.

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Joe Wein
Junior
Posts: 24
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted December 29, 2017 01:58 PM      Profile for Joe Wein   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Wein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Pere - do you happen to have any raw test footage from the 1080 version of the wolverine? I'd love to see the quality of those. Thanks!

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Steve Thurlow
Junior
Posts: 4
From: Toronto, ON, Canada
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted December 29, 2017 02:04 PM      Profile for Steve Thurlow   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have just bought the new Wolverine Pro with 1080P. I have made 4 videos so far from Super8. All looks good and I happy with the quality. However I get memory card errors from time to time when recording. The machine stops and I restart and all is well for a few more minutes until it stops again with same error. This is a little annoying.

Any idea how to fix this?

I have tried several SD cards all formatted by this machine. I can stitch the videos together in software I know.

--------------------
Steve Thurlow

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Joe Wein
Junior
Posts: 24
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted December 29, 2017 02:21 PM      Profile for Joe Wein   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Wein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Steve - Is there any footage you would feel comfortable sharing - I'd love to see the quality of a clip? Also, are the SD cards you're using the largest size and hit the speed recommendations?
quote:
I have just bought the new Wolverine Pro with 1080P. I have made 4 videos so far from Super8.

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Steve Thurlow
Junior
Posts: 4
From: Toronto, ON, Canada
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted December 29, 2017 02:34 PM      Profile for Steve Thurlow   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The cards I am using are 8GB SDHC Class 10

--------------------
Steve Thurlow

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Joe Wein
Junior
Posts: 24
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted December 29, 2017 06:33 PM      Profile for Joe Wein   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Wein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Steve - While I haven't used the Wolverine, I believe it can take up to 32G cards and may use additional memory while creating the video file. I would try a bigger card...

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Steve Thurlow
Junior
Posts: 4
From: Toronto, ON, Canada
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted December 30, 2017 09:19 AM      Profile for Steve Thurlow   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The memory error seems to have gone away since I scanned a 5in reel which took about 3 hours.... all in one take. I created a 1GB file. I just sat and watched it and am thrilled with the video that I got.

--------------------
Steve Thurlow

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Bill Pritchett
Junior
Posts: 7
From: Florida, USA
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted January 07, 2018 06:02 PM      Profile for Bill Pritchett   Email Bill Pritchett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Steve, I have about 9k feet of film to convert and ready to order the Pro version in a week or so. How is it working for you now? Are you watching the digitals at the 20 fps or converting?

--------------------
Bill

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Steve Thurlow
Junior
Posts: 4
From: Toronto, ON, Canada
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted January 08, 2018 09:48 AM      Profile for Steve Thurlow   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is working well. I am pleased with the results. 20 fpm is so close to the original speed that it is hardly worth changing it but it is easy to do on the pc if you want to.

--------------------
Steve Thurlow

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Stacey Henderson
Junior
Posts: 1
From: Bolinas, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 2017


 - posted January 08, 2018 04:11 PM      Profile for Stacey Henderson   Author's Homepage   Email Stacey Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings: After reading the topic since September, In late December I, bought the Woverine MovieMaker Pro. So far, I am getting good results, (I think). This is all new to me. I inherited a box of old 8mm film of my family from my uncle. I was viewing the films on the projector he also left to me, until the light bulb burned out on the third film. I learned getting a new bulb was going to be both difficult and expensive. So I bought the wolverine and plan to convert the whole box and send it out in digital form to the extended family.
What I'm looking for is help preparing the film for the scanning. It keeps getting stuck in the light table and stops. I've learned how to fix a bad splice by doing a new splice. (I did my first splice 3 days ago, and it worked well.)That is not the only issue when the film stops. Sometimes it seems to be sticky enough with this yellow stuff to stop the process. The last 400 foot roll I scanned stopped 41 times during the process!
I tried and can't seem to order the filmguard. It seems to be the best choice for a cleaner and preservative, but Amazon says it can't be sent to California, where I live. I do have denatured alcohol, but I'm scared to use it for fear of damaging these old films. Suggestions? Any help is appreciated!

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Alan Taplow
Junior
Posts: 20
From: Plainfield VT, USA
Registered: Feb 2015


 - posted January 08, 2018 04:41 PM      Profile for Alan Taplow   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Taplow   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I run everything through an editor to be certain the splices are clean, sprocket holes are not torn, and to cut out any long black or clear sections. Then I rewind through a frame counter on all 5" or 7" reels so I know what to charge folks, as well as through a hand held lint free paper with a very inexpensive home-made cleaning solution consisting of 20% Mineral Oil and 80% of a 99% Isopropyl Alcohol (well shaken not stirred :-) Treated many thousand feet this way and no damage -- the very thin film of mineral oil keeps it feeding smoothly through the gate of a projector as well as the Wolverine. I think there is another forum topic on cleaning film you may also wish to view.

--------------------
Alan Taplow
ataplow@gmail.com

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Gian Michele Soddu
Junior
Posts: 7
From: Cagliari, Sardinia, Italy
Registered: Oct 2017


 - posted January 09, 2018 06:20 AM      Profile for Gian Michele Soddu   Email Gian Michele Soddu   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Stacey Henderson, you may find most interesting the results of Kodak's research work regarding best solvents for
cleaning films: https://www.kodak.com/us/en/motion/support/people_and_planet/produc t_use/film_cleaning_solvents/default.htm
The last three members in the list are judged as excellent and not hazardous. Their content is pure isoparaffins=isoalkanes in the range C9-C11. For sure it is not easy to buy the cited solvents, especially if one cannot afford to buy a 200 liter barrel or live in countries like mine... BUT... we are smart people, are we? In facts, we can find an equivalent chemical composition in the best (= top quality class) liquid fuels for living room stoves! So here in Sardinia I found this at the supermarket, in a 5 litres bottle: http://www.tecnoairsystem.it/it/prodotto/petropur/petropur-platinum-348.html.
Here is an equivalent from The Nederlands, Firelux Clear, so pure because it has been sinthesized directly from gas: https://www.firelux.nl/en-us/use Cheers! gms
P.S.: Hi Alan Taplow, I humbly wish to point out that isopropyl alcohol, when not thoroughly removed from the film, serves as a water-absorber from air. And water accelerates the decomposition of acetate films (the dreadful, so called, vinegar syndrome). Wishing to be helpful. Cheers. gms

[ January 11, 2018, 04:46 AM: Message edited by: Gian Michele Soddu ]

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Bill Pritchett
Junior
Posts: 7
From: Florida, USA
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted January 09, 2018 08:22 AM      Profile for Bill Pritchett   Email Bill Pritchett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the response Steve. I'm in the same situation as Stacey...all new to this. Projector bulb blew when I first turned it on and then found DLJ bulbs expensive for the hours they last. This lead me to setting up to digitize the films.

The film prep and cleaning info is really helpful. I just bought an editor and splicer and plan on cleaning and reviewing the film before converting.

Thanks to all for the helpful info. Being that I'm totally new to the 8mm film world I'm soaking the info up like a sponge.

Regard,
Bill P.

--------------------
Bill

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Gary Schreffler
Film Handler

Posts: 33
From: North Potomac, MD, USA
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted January 09, 2018 08:49 AM      Profile for Gary Schreffler   Author's Homepage   Email Gary Schreffler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have been using a product from Urbanski Films called Filmrenew for many years, with excellent results. Also, this from Urbanski sums up well how to clean your films:

FILM CLEANING TECHNIQUES AND TIPS
By Larry Urbanski
Urbanski Film
Many collectors and archivists have asked for basic instructions how to clean and preserve their motion picture films.
The most common method of film cleaning is accomplished by wiping films with a cloth soaked in film cleaner while rewinding the film using hand rewinds.

The film cleaning procedure requires some equipment all film collectors/archivists should have.
You’ll need a set of hand rewinds, film cleaner, cloths, and rubber gloves if desired.

Hand rewinds are made to accept film reels. By turning a handle the film is wound from one reel to another. These are usually mounted on a board or directly on a table. For film cleaning, table mount is recommended.

Cloths required should be 100% cotton cloth. Soft fluffy t-shirt or sweatshirt material works well and you can launder them when dirty. Rolls of film wipes can be purchased if desired.

There are several film cleaners on the market. We will discuss applying Filmrenew, which is a cleaner and preservative. Other film cleaners can be applied (Solvon, Renovex, RTI, Ecco, Edwal) using this same method. Other film cleaners are fast drying, and will dry immediately. Filmrenew is a slow drying product, taking several days to thoroughly dry.

Rubber gloves should be used if you are averse to getting chemicals on your hands.
Use all film cleaners in a well-ventilated area.

Films should be inspected and repaired before cleaning. Loose splices, nicks, and sprocket tears can snag the cloth when cleaning, tearing the film.

We are in front of our set of hand rewinds, one on the right, and one on the left.
Put your reel with film on the left side. I like the film coming off the top of the reel. Put your steel take up reel on the right side. The film should be wound off the top of the reel, clockwise, like this diagram. (Left reel 0***0 Right reel)

Moisten the cotton cloth in Filmrenew. Fold the cloth over the film. I create a “jaw” that covers the film in cloth, so that your thumb and fingers put pressure on both sides of the film. Wind the film slowly applying light pressure and evenly applying Filmrenew. Keep checking your cloth for dirt buildup. When the cloth starts to show dirt move your cleaning cloth to another position. Built up dirt and grit may scratch film! Re-apply more Filmrenew as necessary to keep the cloth and film moist.

Once the Filmrenew has been applied and is wound on the steel take-up, allow it to dry. Filmrenew has a long drying period, depending on your climate (usually a couple days). Once dry, rewind back to the original reel. Do not put the film in a can until completely dry.
If necessary, the drying process can be speeded up. You can immediately rewind back onto the original (steel) reel while buffing off excess Filmrenew with a dry cotton cloth.
If your films are on plastic reels use steel reels for the cleaning process. When the Filmrenew is dry, wind back on the plastic reels.

In some cases Filmrenew’s penetrating capabilities may loosen tape splices.
If you are using fast drying film cleaners (Solvon, Renovex, RTI, Ecco, Edwal), these products will not affect tape splices. It is recommended when cleaning film with ANY brand of film cleaner to use steel reels. Plastic reels may be used with Filmrenew if steel reels are not available for cleaning, but expect the plastic reel to become discolored.

Plastic reels may be used with fast dry cleaners if steel reels are not available for cleaning. Caution: When using a plastic reel with a fast dry cleaner, do not apply the fast drying cleaner too quickly. If the film is still wet while winding on to the plastic take-up reel, the film could stick to the sides of a plastic reel, damaging the film.

There are film applicator units that can be mounted between your rewinds to make the film cleaning process neater. Film cleaner is put in a bottle with an adjustable flow rate that wets cloths in a spring-loaded jaw. The film is pulled through the wet cloths by your rewinds, cleaning the film. The Ecco Model D Applicator can be used with any brand film cleaner.

Clean your films every couple years or more often if you notice dirt, warping, or noise while projecting. Clean films are less prone to damage. Your collection will retain its value, and your films will project better if you clean and maintain your prints.

Filmrenew is the only film cleaner you can use for soaking.
How to soak a film print in Filmrenew: After cleaning your film wind it tightly tails out (reverse wind) on a steel reel. Fill a lab can with Filmrenew and submerge the print. Let it sit in the closed can for a few weeks. Take the print out and let it dry for several days before rewinding. This process helps curl, shrinkage, and brittleness.

Filmrenew immediately kills mold and fungus. To remove mold and fungus soak the print for a minute or two to totally kill the mold and fungus. Immediately clean the print with a cloth moistened in Filmrenew as outlined in these instructions to remove dead fungus. If the film is on plastic reels it is recommended to replace the contaminated plastic reels. Steel reels, if not rusty, can be reused.

Filmrenew can be applied with a brush directly on the sides of a film for a quick protection application. The film may be immediately projected “wet” or allowed to dry. Obviously dirt is not removed from the film using this method.

**FILM CLEANING TIP. There is less chance of damage to very old archival sound film while hand cleaning with rewinds if you fold over your cloth on the sound side (not the sprocket side). If you are using square/square reels this can easily be done. This minimizes the possibility of the rag catching on a damaged sprocket and tearing the film while cleaning.

**FILM CLEANING TIP WITH FAST DRY CLEANERS. When using fast drying cleaners like Solvon, Renovex 2, RTI, Edwal, and Ecco care must be taken to make sure the film is completely dry when it is taken up on the rewind. If you apply a fast drying cleaner too quickly, and the film is still wet while winding on to the take-up reel, the film may stick together or the film could stick to the sides of a plastic reel, damaging the film.

**Filmrenew is safe for all film gauges and film stocks including but not limited to 8mm, Super 8mm, 16mm, 35mm, and 70mm. Filmrenew has tested safe for professionally applied magnetic soundtracks, such as Kodak sound stripe films or entertainment films sold by distributors. It is always recommended to spot clean a small section of a magnetic track if it may be an “after market” add on track.

--------------------
My God; It's Full Of Stars!

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Alan Taplow
Junior
Posts: 20
From: Plainfield VT, USA
Registered: Feb 2015


 - posted January 09, 2018 09:53 AM      Profile for Alan Taplow   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Taplow   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I apologize for helping to get this Wolverine thread off topic.
Those interested in cleaning may want to go to: http://8mmforum.film-tech.com and do a search on "film cleaning", where there are dozens of relevant postings. This thread should probably get back to discussing Wolverine.

--------------------
Alan Taplow
ataplow@gmail.com

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