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Author Topic: Review Wolverine Reels2Digital MovieMaker 8mm film digitizer
Bill Sherren
Film Handler

Posts: 43
From: Kent, England
Registered: Dec 2018


 - posted January 08, 2019 10:21 AM      Profile for Bill Sherren   Email Bill Sherren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My Wolverine Pro has the 20180323-ZS08 firmware which I am assuming is one of the buggy ones? Since getting the unit I have always set it to low and it appears to keep this between power ups. It only changes if I click on default. But I them reset to low. However of my 25 recordings so far only two are obviously less noisy and using the low setting. All the others much more noise and these include further scans of the ones that look better. Is that typical of the buggy firmware that sometimes it works but usually not?! Can't Wolverine get anything right?

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1612
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 08, 2019 11:24 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Why would anyone buy one of these things??

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Mike Spice
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Chichester, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted January 09, 2019 10:59 AM      Profile for Mike Spice   Email Mike Spice   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
ROB YOUNG

This is why!

Super 8 scanned with a Wolverine

[ January 12, 2019, 05:30 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1612
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 09, 2019 12:35 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Mike, I take your point. [Smile]

But I read of so much hassle with these machines both here on the forum and elsewhere that maybe I just wished they worked better. [Roll Eyes]

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Bill Sherren
Film Handler

Posts: 43
From: Kent, England
Registered: Dec 2018


 - posted January 09, 2019 11:44 PM      Profile for Bill Sherren   Email Bill Sherren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wolverine scanner made in China designed by Heath Robinson!

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Werner Ruotsalainen
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted January 10, 2019 01:46 PM      Profile for Werner Ruotsalainen   Email Werner Ruotsalainen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
But I read of so much hassle with these machines both here on the forum and elsewhere that maybe I just wished they worked better.
Yup - you get what you pay for. The other alternative producing even better image quality would be the MovieStuff scanners. At more than ten times the price, particularly if you're outside the US (additional customs and stuff).

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Kev Morrison
Film Handler

Posts: 75
From: Land of the Mouse, USA
Registered: Feb 2018


 - posted January 10, 2019 09:53 PM      Profile for Kev Morrison   Email Kev Morrison   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike,

Thanks for your web link to your Royal Navy movies - VERY cool!

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Gary Schreffler
Film Handler

Posts: 33
From: North Potomac, MD, USA
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted January 11, 2019 09:08 AM      Profile for Gary Schreffler   Author's Homepage   Email Gary Schreffler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike,
Did you serve in the Royal Navy?

--------------------
My God; It's Full Of Stars!

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1625
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007


 - posted January 11, 2019 05:05 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike's film is both amazing and not what it should be. So long as nobody expects a definitive-quality transfer off of this thing, then fine. But a professional 2K scan of that footage would look strides better. PLUS $$$.

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Mike Spice
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Chichester, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted January 12, 2019 04:48 AM      Profile for Mike Spice   Email Mike Spice   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
KEV you are welcome.
Not all the footage on my youtube is mine, quite a lot of it is from reels sent to me to scan for other Navy lads.
Those reels are watermarked.

All the 8mm footage on my Utube has been made with the 720p Wolverine, with the exception of one DVD rip of cine film.
Most of the examples at UTube are only 576p for ease of uploading

GARY yes I did serve in the RN. 1974-1986 A cook.

BILL Funny you mention that, over the xmas break I have gone through my reels and edited every Ship and flying shot down to two reels, around 600ft.

The Ark Royal footage most certainly deserves a professional scan, it is historical footage indeed.

I am now choosing which of two companies I am going to send the reels to for a proper scan.

I am almost certainly sending it for a 2.5K Retroscan here in the UK, but I am also considering the reels going to a company who use a Muller HD scanner.

I expect to pay between £100 and £200 but a few bills to pay, so it is coming in the next few months hopefully.

I wish I could afford to have all my reels scanned that way, I have some lovely shots of my late mum & family members and sisters kids growing up.

[ January 12, 2019, 06:26 AM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]

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Bill Sherren
Film Handler

Posts: 43
From: Kent, England
Registered: Dec 2018


 - posted January 12, 2019 08:41 AM      Profile for Bill Sherren   Email Bill Sherren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike Spice- Are the bulk of your films you scan Super 8? Do you do many Std 8mm? All mine are STD 8mm but I did find an old Super 8mm which I shot in the 80's. When I scan this while it was still unsteady did not show any damage to the sprocket holes unlike the STD 8mm scans. So perhaps the possible erratic width is to blame. When you use the box for collecting the film I guess you miss out all the rollers on the Wolverine?
Is one of companies you are considering Gauge Films?

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Gary Schreffler
Film Handler

Posts: 33
From: North Potomac, MD, USA
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted January 12, 2019 09:03 AM      Profile for Gary Schreffler   Author's Homepage   Email Gary Schreffler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike: I flew as a Seaking helicopter crewman in the U.S. Navy. We loved delivering mail to you guys. The bag was always returned with good food and generous amounts of beer!!!

Now to the Wolverine. Maybe what I'm going to say here is from Captain Obvious, but... When discussing image quality, one really must first consider the image on the film being scanned, as well as the condition of the film, etc. I see folks converting 'boxes of home movies' talking to folks who are converting professional home movies, as in feature films that were purchased. Needless to say, there is a world of difference there.

My point here is that if your 8mm film is grainy, or filmed in poor lighting, or over exposed, or on poor quality film stock (or developed overseas with substandard chemicals), etc., no scanner will make the film look like a broadcast quality video.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. You can use a scanner on film of less than optimal quality. The quality of the image will remain less than optimal.

Again, I realize I am probably stating the obvious here, but there it is...

--------------------
My God; It's Full Of Stars!

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Mike Spice
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Chichester, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted January 12, 2019 09:42 AM      Profile for Mike Spice   Email Mike Spice   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
BILL My own films were all Super8 but I have scanned many hundreds of feet of Standard 8 for other folk.

An example of Standard 8mm from 1959

I found the standard 8 held it's colour up much better over the years, in some cases, looking quite beautiful.

Using a box to collect the film, yes, the film exits the scanner gate, goes over the top of the first roller, and then over the edge of the work surface to a box below.

Gauge films is one of the two I am considering, the other being Penny Lane who have a 2.5k Retroscan

GARY My films are in reasonable condition, as much as I enjoy the 720p scans, I do want to see what can be pulled off the film with a proper scan, hence only putting the Navy clips in to one reel to save costs.

I certainly am not looking for broadcast quality from S8 but it would nice to be able to see my Phantoms without so much pixelating in full screen and have the chance to see a full overscan of the frames

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Gary Schreffler
Film Handler

Posts: 33
From: North Potomac, MD, USA
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted January 12, 2019 09:48 AM      Profile for Gary Schreffler   Author's Homepage   Email Gary Schreffler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike, for my better films, I use a Workprinter XP (made by Moviestuff). I also have access to a Moviestuff scanner. I do Navy films all the time. I also convert home movies for fellow vets free of charge. I would not mind doing yours for you, if that helps...

--------------------
My God; It's Full Of Stars!

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Mike Spice
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Chichester, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted January 12, 2019 09:53 AM      Profile for Mike Spice   Email Mike Spice   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Cheers for the offer Gary, that's very kind of you, but sending my reels to the USA is not something I want to do. Other than the cost, I don't want to risk them going astray

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Bill Sherren
Film Handler

Posts: 43
From: Kent, England
Registered: Dec 2018


 - posted January 12, 2019 11:43 AM      Profile for Bill Sherren   Email Bill Sherren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I see that Gauge Films are getting the latest Muller HD+ scanner in the next month or so.
Not sure who did the scan but saw a 2K wetgate scan of an amateur Standard 8mm film which was filmed on a basic Eumig camera. It was screened at the BFI and looked glorious. And showed just how much detail is contained in a 8mm frame. It was taken during the filming of The Prisoner tv series. And when shown along side sequences from the series which were filmed using 35mm really just looked like out-takes!

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Mike Spice
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Chichester, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted January 12, 2019 03:17 PM      Profile for Mike Spice   Email Mike Spice   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
BILL I saw that too, on the FB page.
I don't know if I want my Super 8 going thro' a wet gate...

I would like an overscan, which I am not sure the Retroscan does, so Gauge are my first choice at the moment.

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Werner Ruotsalainen
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted January 14, 2019 11:27 PM      Profile for Werner Ruotsalainen   Email Werner Ruotsalainen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Did you serve in the Royal Navy?
Talking about the Navy / Army... Recently, I've purchased several rolls of private S8 footage; some of them having army-related stuff. I've scanned them all.

The most interesting are as follows: Vietnam, around 1970 (the films stock's manufacture date was between 03/1969 and 10/1969):

Roll 1: https://youtu.be/jXD1UQIGZtU
Roll 2: https://youtu.be/N97tVjdF4RE
Roll 3: https://youtu.be/CzeaFzNz1U8

(Note that Roll 2 and 3 have some 7 and 0.5 minutes (respectively) shot elsewhere (UK and Australia), when the soldier in question had a holiday there.)

Several Military Police companies have been filmed: 630th, T-3938, T-2090 etc.

This footage has never been scanned / published anywhere (I've looked thru the Vietnam-specific S8 archives).

Other, army-related stuff, which may also interest you: Marine Corp Days 1970 1971 1972 USMC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4WSAghq0TA

This film, among other things, has some kind of a celebration at Rock Creek & Potomac Parkway.

(Note that I've also purchased another roll of the same subject ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWwWHkDMfeo ) but it doesn't seem to have official stuff (celebrations etc.), "only" having a good time, presumably - based on the labels of the films) with other ex-Marine Corp members.)

Also, you may also want to check out my older but still VERY interesting uploads (I've previously posted these links to Page 13 of this thread so you may already have seen these):

Original 12p(!!!) versions:

In the German Army, 1964 - 1 https://youtu.be/xKidGxNgn14
In the German Army, 1964 - 2 https://youtu.be/ntez1LH-bYE

60p (processed) versions:

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3XBthKlNPs
2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBGSCtX4xo4

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Stan Jelavic
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted February 02, 2019 01:06 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am new to the forum. Lots of interesting evening reading and thank you for that. I have a Wolverine Pro Model and not happy with the level of compression. Contacted Wolverine Data and they replied that the Novatel chip is in a time lapse movie mode i.e no intermediate images saved.The chip takes stills at programmed intervals and creates the MP4 on a fly. The stills are not saved
(my guess). I tried yanking the sd card out while recording and the SD recovery software and indeed detected a corrupt MP4 file that was not properly closed. If this all is indeed true than we do not have much hope of getting the raw stills. Unless we develop our own patch that would access the cam and save images at regular intervals.... That is a big job. I have done it in my younger years and not sure if I have enough patience for that. Another idea. Pull the cam out and install another one like the RPI cam. Set RPI cadence to match the step motor... I kinda like that.

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Kevin R Sexton
Junior
Posts: 7
From: Littlerock, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2018


 - posted February 02, 2019 07:13 PM      Profile for Kevin R Sexton   Email Kevin R Sexton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had that thought about using a raspberry pi to modify this hardware. There are several projects with posts online that either use a raspberry pi with projector hardware or custom hardware. It should be possible with the camera in the wolverine, or a rpi camera, to get a silly high resolution capture that would show all the film grain.
I think that's actually something that the manufacturer intentionally is avoiding. What looks like compression seems to be they are smoothing the grain out, and then running a sharpen filter on the image. On low sharpness the sharpen filter is barely noticeable, the variations that look like compression and sharpening appear to be originating from the grain.
The newer firmware goes back to high sharpness setting after power off/on, but displays the sharpness setting you had it on. I've been turning sharpness to high, then back to low each time I start, so that's a bug they need to fix.

But again, I don't think it's really compression that's the issue, since I've looked at the same frames through a projector, and it really doesn't look sharper and even put the film across a microscope and seen how big the grains really are.
Better could be done with true high res images, that could be lined up to remove jitter in software, along with making corrections in color, contrast etc frame by frame. Some of those RPI projects appear to do this, but it seems like it would be a lot of work getting from what's posted to a working setup.

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Kevin R Sexton
Junior
Posts: 7
From: Littlerock, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2018


 - posted February 02, 2019 10:52 PM      Profile for Kevin R Sexton   Email Kevin R Sexton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here is one of the videos I've just got up, 1967 rose parade, one of the few times my grandfather apparently used a whole reel at one location.
https://youtu.be/8l5IutSp0W8 full frame
https://youtu.be/IkvpJoAD7e8 zoomed out

Once I get everything captured, most of them are going to have to be cut up and reassembled to separate family stuff from other stuff that may be of interest to others that can be published publicly. On a 5 minute reel it may go from landscapes seen on vacation, to family shots, to flowers, to one of my uncle's childhood birthday parties.

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Stan Jelavic
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted February 02, 2019 11:23 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Compared my Wolverine capture against the machine that I put together with a Pen SLR. The jpg tiling is definitely visible in the Wolverine frames:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/nMdrbeUQSg2S4xMq9

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Kevin R Sexton
Junior
Posts: 7
From: Littlerock, CA, USA
Registered: Dec 2018


 - posted February 03, 2019 01:22 AM      Profile for Kevin R Sexton   Email Kevin R Sexton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think that image you captured is showing one of the things the wolverine is set to avoid. On your image, there are red and green blotches on the pavement. On the wolverine, the pavement looks grey. The same effect is on the grass, and to some extent the curb. The blotches are probably from the film grain, look at the film frame itself with enough magnification, and you'd see the whole image is made up of crystals of these colors.
I think they intentionally are processing the image to reduce the effect, and somehow the wolverine image looks more detailed except in the areas of grass that look smoothed or blurred.

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1694
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted February 03, 2019 03:54 AM      Profile for Brian Fretwell   Email Brian Fretwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In that case the Wolverine image looks less like the original. I think most people here would like have the raw output and be able to control the amount of picture processing in post production adjustment.

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Mike Spice
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Chichester, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted February 03, 2019 02:06 PM      Profile for Mike Spice   Email Mike Spice   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would walk over hot coals to have an image sequence from a wolverine.

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