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Author Topic: Wolverine
James Wilson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 230
From: Norwich, UK
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted April 22, 2017 06:24 AM      Profile for James Wilson   Author's Homepage   Email James Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,
I wonder if anyone can help me?
I'm looking to buy a Wolverine
cinefilm digitiser here in the UK.
Is there anyone who can point me
in the right direction as to where
to get one.
Many Thanks,
James.

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James Wilson

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Gary Sayers
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Worksop, UK
Registered: Aug 2016


 - posted April 23, 2017 06:23 AM      Profile for Gary Sayers     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am in the UK and I ordered one from Amazon.com earlier this month, which came to a grand total of £331. This includes all postage and import duties.

Because it is not in stock for a few weeks, I checked today what it would work out at with the current exchange rates in case I could get it at a better price.

I found that if ordering today, the total cost would be £293.79!!

I promptly cancelled my original order then re-ordered at the new price.

I think this is a great price, particularly when considering that a third-hand machine that I bid for on ebay recently sold for £226.07 plus £10 postage!

I reckon that after I have digitised all my films, I could sell the machine on ebay for at least £200 (maybe more with a few bidders).

Having said that, I would probably hang on to it - sold too many items I now regret letting go.

If you order from Amazon.com, make sure you have the Amazon currency converter enabled at the checkout (doesn't effect the price but displays it all in £s).

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James Wilson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 230
From: Norwich, UK
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted April 23, 2017 06:40 AM      Profile for James Wilson   Author's Homepage   Email James Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Many thanks Gary, the only problem is I can't
find it listed on Amazon.
Regards,
James.

--------------------
James Wilson

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Gary Sayers
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Worksop, UK
Registered: Aug 2016


 - posted April 23, 2017 07:34 AM      Profile for Gary Sayers     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi James,

Here's the link:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KA32HH0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Gary

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James Wilson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 230
From: Norwich, UK
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted April 23, 2017 09:10 AM      Profile for James Wilson   Author's Homepage   Email James Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Gary,

I got it for £293.79 thanks for the tip.
Can I ask what programm your going to edit with
(slow down) the movie, I've already got Nero 2015 Classic is this good enough?
Kind Regards,
James.

--------------------
James Wilson

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1551
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 23, 2017 09:25 AM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was all ready to "buy it now" for $298.+ $19.84 shipping on eBay, but after reading all the negative reviews as well as the positive reviews on Amazon, by verified buyers, I decided not to...

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Joe Taffis

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Gary Sayers
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Worksop, UK
Registered: Aug 2016


 - posted April 23, 2017 10:27 AM      Profile for Gary Sayers     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe - It's currently $299.99 on Amazon and I guess that has free postage in the U.S.
Also, with Amazon's return policy, if you are not happy with it's performance, you can return it for a full refund.

James - The only editing software I have is 'Sony Vegas'. It will slow or speed up footage but I really have no idea how to use it though (can't get my head around computer editing and really don't like it).

My Son uses it so I will have to get him to help me with it when I'm ready.

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James Wilson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 230
From: Norwich, UK
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted April 23, 2017 11:37 AM      Profile for James Wilson   Author's Homepage   Email James Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Gary
I,m in the same boat, my grandson has more idea than me, I'v always used a Casablanca for all my video editing but this is
mpeg2, so I'll have to start learning all over again.
Regards,
James.

--------------------
James Wilson

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Berend De Meyer
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 140
From: Leek, The Netherlands
Registered: Apr 2017


 - posted April 23, 2017 04:04 PM      Profile for Berend De Meyer   Email Berend De Meyer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi James,

I ordered mine - REbranded Somikon - at PEARL.DE for euro 399. Shipping date 27.04. [Cool]

http://www.pearl.de/mtrkw-8074-film-scanner-fuer-super-8-und-8-mm.shtml

Perhaps it's worth mentioning. Good luck!

Cheers

[ April 24, 2017, 05:36 AM: Message edited by: Berend De Meyer ]

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Cheers | “I am an advocate of the "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" modus operandi!”

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5408
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 24, 2017 12:18 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is Sumikon a rebadged of Wolverine?

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Winbert

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James Wilson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 230
From: Norwich, UK
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted April 24, 2017 07:46 AM      Profile for James Wilson   Author's Homepage   Email James Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Berend,

Is this machine NTSC? or PAL.
Regards,
James.

--------------------
James Wilson

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Berend De Meyer
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 140
From: Leek, The Netherlands
Registered: Apr 2017


 - posted April 24, 2017 08:25 AM      Profile for Berend De Meyer   Email Berend De Meyer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi James and all others that are interested!

Google Translated Specifications:

==========

HD-XL film scanner for easy digitization of Super 8 and 8 mm films (switchable)
High-resolution 1/3 "CMOS sensor with 3.53 megapixels
Scan resolution: 1440 x 1080 pixels at 30 frames / sec.
Stand-alone recording: saves directly to SD (HC) card up to 32 GB, no PC necessary
Recording format: MP4 video, no recording of the audio track
Automatic exposure, manual correction (-2.0 to +2.0 EV), automatic white balance
Light source: LED lighting
Built-in TFT LCD display: 6 cm / 2.4 "
USB 2.0 port for data transfer to the computer
TV output: PAL / NTSC
For Super 8 and Normal 8 film coils (adapter 8/13 mm included) up to 17.8 cm / 7 "
Automatic stop at the end of the movie
Fast rewinding (requires about 2 minutes for 10 minutes of film)
Integrated carrying handle
Connections: TV-Out (3.5 mm jack), mini USB, slot for SD (HC) cards up to 32 GB, power supply
Supports Windows XP / Vista / 7/8 / 8.1 / 10, OS X from 10.7.3
Power supply: 12 V via 230 V power supply (cable length: 1.2 m)
Measurements: 32 x 18,5 x 11 cm, weight: 1,5 kg
Filmcanner including Film-Leerspule, Film-coil-adapters, spacer-rings for the film guide, power supply, video cable (3.5 mm jack to RCA, 150 cm), USB cable (mini USB to USB, 100 cm) And German instructions.

==========

Cheers

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Cheers | “I am an advocate of the "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" modus operandi!”

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James Wilson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 230
From: Norwich, UK
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted April 24, 2017 09:04 AM      Profile for James Wilson   Author's Homepage   Email James Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Berend,

I chequed it out, but it still outputs
at 30fps so still needs to be slowed down.
But it does stop automatically at film end.
Many Thanks,
James.

--------------------
James Wilson

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Gary Sayers
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Worksop, UK
Registered: Aug 2016


 - posted April 24, 2017 12:31 PM      Profile for Gary Sayers     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The early specs that were published in the user manual for version 1 of the Wolverine also stated 1080p.

The more up to date manual now states 720p resolution (which is correct), so I wonder if it's the same for the Somikon and the 1080p claim?

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5408
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 24, 2017 01:07 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't understand the reason why Wolverine (or Somikon) decided to set 30 fps instead of 24 fps or 18 fps which is the standard speed of super 8mm? So we don't need to slow it down after scanning.

Or even a switchable machine between 18, 24 or 30 fps!! We are now living in the computer technology which I believe an easy program for that.

Anyone know the reason?

--------------------
Winbert

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Ty Reynolds
Film Handler

Posts: 92
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Registered: Nov 2015


 - posted April 24, 2017 03:09 PM      Profile for Ty Reynolds   Author's Homepage   Email Ty Reynolds   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Likely because it is a frame by frame scanner. Each frame of film is scanned as a discreet image. The resulting mp4 file is based on NTSC, so 30 fps. Even the more sophisticated film scanners require a processing step that converts the scanned images to the appropriate playback speed.

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Gary Sayers
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Worksop, UK
Registered: Aug 2016


 - posted April 24, 2017 04:02 PM      Profile for Gary Sayers     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In reply to a comment on one of their youtube videos, Wolverine data state '....we can only run the video at 30fps because there is no video chips available that can play at less then 30fps.'

That was posted 7 months ago.

With regard to the 1080p/720p question - on the same video's comments from 6 months ago, they state '8mm film is very low resolution film. When we scanned it and produced a 1080p videos, it shows a lot of missing pixels or grainy image. For that reason we reduce the output to 720p.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jzXrR1Dmfw

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Will Trenfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 483
From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted April 24, 2017 08:13 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh, come on. Nearly 300 quid for that when, with a bit of patience, I can capture and digitise old films using free software by projecting on to a white card.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5408
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 24, 2017 11:21 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Will, projecting to a white card definetly will produce flickers and (sometimes) hot spot.

Scanning is the best method of transfering.

Remember the old animation movie when cartoonist drawing picture frame by frame, that is how scanning method working now.

--------------------
Winbert

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Berend De Meyer
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 140
From: Leek, The Netherlands
Registered: Apr 2017


 - posted April 25, 2017 05:17 AM      Profile for Berend De Meyer   Email Berend De Meyer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Hi Berend,

I checked it out, but it still outputs
at 30fps so still needs to be slowed down.
But it does stop automatically at film end.
Many Thanks,
James.

Hi James, your most welcome! Note that this deck is only a film to digital scanner and that's exactly what I'll use it for. Of course post-production is absolutely needed to get the best finished video output possible:
- change fps for all footage depending on used film camera and thus fps
- tweak white points for different scenes
- overall picture Q tweaks as noise reduction etc

So when you need a good Q output 720/1080 there's still a lot of work to be done in post. But, those films will fade to dust anyway. So for me it's now the time to act and get all our family films scanned and converted! Better safe than sorry is my motto at this point!

Cheers

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Cheers | “I am an advocate of the "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" modus operandi!”

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Will Trenfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 483
From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted April 25, 2017 08:16 AM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert, I got around the flicker problem by using an old analogue video camcorder, feeding the output directly into a digital converter and capturing the results to a hard disk. I used Virtualdub to edit the captured footages, saving them as AVI files. I even used a battered old Eumig 501 for the projector. Of course, frame by frame capture would give the best results but at a cost. The videos I've produced using old gear I had anyway are perfectly acceptable for home use and for uploading to YouTube.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4785
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 25, 2017 10:15 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
using the projection to a small screen method, I was able to eliminate nearly all flicker by slowing the shutter speed on my Sony camcorder.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,

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Berend De Meyer
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 140
From: Leek, The Netherlands
Registered: Apr 2017


 - posted April 25, 2017 03:28 PM      Profile for Berend De Meyer   Email Berend De Meyer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi all,

Thanks for all your possible alternatives to the Wolverin / Somikon for recording old (super) 8mm film. But could you please show us some results to go aside with your claims about the Q? The readers of this thread are (perhaps) spending a fair amount of hard earned money, so if you have better alternatives, please show us your output helping other members to make a better buying decision! Thanks in advance.

Cheers [Cool]

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Cheers | “I am an advocate of the "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" modus operandi!”

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5408
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 25, 2017 04:49 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Winbert, I got around the flicker problem by using an old analogue video camcorder,
Will, when we are talking video and digital, there is no other reason to say that the old technology can beat the later ones. If you are using the latest 2K video that must be giving much better result.

I am sorry for my faith. It is the opposite when we are talking analog vinyl or films.

quote:
I was able to eliminate nearly all flicker by slowing the shutter speed on my Sony camcorder.
Paul, I did that method but that will create color bleach (I am not sure if this the correct term, but this is when you see the colors become too much saturated) plus some white on bright scenes (over bright?).

Not to mention that telecining directly from the screen will give the same shakes when projectors have the problem. Scanning will not have this problem

Anyway...guys...in this 8mm scene, there are two type of members involed here, i.e film shooters and film collectors.

I can see from your previous posts, Will is a film collector while Berend is a film shooter.

It seems to me unfair when film shooters spend that much money to fullfill their needs than we, the film collectors say

quote:
"why you spend that much while we can do with this thing or that thing".
The film shooters then will also say

quote:
"why you spend $1500 for a Star Wars F/L print when you can buy that on a DVD".
[Big Grin] [Wink]

quote:
I ordered mine - REbranded Somikon - at PEARL.DE for euro 399. Shipping date 27.04. [Cool]
Berend, I saw you edited the post. So Somikon is a rebranded of Wolverine? If this is the same machine then Euro 399 vs US$ 299 (eqv EUR 273) is somekind a lost there. Buyers must be aware of this.

quote:
. But could you please show us some results to go aside with your claims about the Q?
A month ago, I give 5 stars for this result done by Mattias Norberg (please note the uploader is also a member of this forum)

https://vimeo.com/82497785

Until I found this video:

https://vimeo.com/129700087

This would be a 5 stars diamond.

The video was so sharp and very balanced colors. This can be made by combination of good camera, lense and scanning. Below I provided some screen shots:

 -

 -

 -

 -

 -

and this is to show how so much details can be taken by his method. Look at the plague far behind when I screen shot from it original resolution, it still can be read easily. I never found a telecine can be sharp as this. Of course, this can be done because of the lens and also the scanner.

 -

Cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4785
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted April 25, 2017 06:53 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The test results of the new Kodak S8 camera, don't even come close to this kind of quality on the Logmar - at least so far. [Frown]

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,

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