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Topic: Eumig S938 Problems

Martin Dew
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 204
From: Henley-on-Thames, UK
Registered: Jan 2017

posted April 24, 2017 10:33 PM

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I've just had my S938 serviced, but two problems have emerged in the week since I got it back. I would like to avoid taking it back to the Eumig expert if I can solve the issues at home.

The first issue is the rotary dial main control switch. The lamp was periodically failing to extinguish in non-lamp forward mode. It is now on permanently in the 'Stop' position, so I have stopped using the machine.

Secondly, the PJ is rejecting some polyester (only) prints on autoload, which it never did before. Some concertina after the first sprocket, one film will not enter the sound head assembly, so spits out the front, and another film repeatedly loses the path after the sound head roller. I've checked all the leaders with a magnifying glass and see no damage to any.

If anyone can help me diagnose or fix either issue, please let me know. Many thanks.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 24, 2017 11:20 PM

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I had the lamp stuck on permanently on one of my Elmos once. In this case the lamp is a lever switch activated by a cam on the control knob shaft. The switch contacts basically welded shut after years and years of use.

I'm sure yours is something similar. (There's only so many ways of doing these things...)

It was one of those fixes that was really easy once you dug down to the problem. It's all the stuff that needed to be disassembled first and then reassembled after that made it kind of nasty!

I guess the first question with your feed issue is did you use the machine's trimmer to get the end of the leader trimmed as it's designed to accept?

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Martin Dew
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 204
From: Henley-on-Thames, UK
Registered: Jan 2017

posted April 25, 2017 03:43 AM

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Thanks, Steve. Unfortunately the trimmer cannot cut polyester film, so I have been cutting my own replica leading edge, which usually works.

[ April 25, 2017, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: Martin Dew ]

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Martin Dew
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 204
From: Henley-on-Thames, UK
Registered: Jan 2017

posted April 25, 2017 03:44 AM

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[ April 25, 2017, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: Martin Dew ]

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted April 25, 2017 04:03 AM

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Hello Martin

Hopefully someone here with a Eumig 938 (or 934 / 936 = same film path design) will be able to help - I haven't had one of these for years and can't remember the mechanism too well - just wondering though as you have a lamp on and threading problem if the mechanism is broken that sets the guides to thread mode etc as there is a fair bit of mechanical linkage in that area? Also are the film gate and sound pressure pad assys clipped closed properly as the orange / red plastic clips can weaken and break over time.

One thing I can do though is I have enclosed a film trimmer in your parcel today that works well with Eumigs and is tough enough to trim polyester film leaders.

Kevin

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted April 25, 2017 04:55 AM

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I assume the Eumig expert charged good money for the service. Did he not give some sort of guarantee for work done?
First call from you should be to him for comment.

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Maurice

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Martin Dew
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 204
From: Henley-on-Thames, UK
Registered: Jan 2017

posted April 25, 2017 07:52 AM

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Thanks, Kevin. Yes, the sound head pressure plate is definitely secure, as is the gate pressure plate clip. The only way I've been able to solve the threading problem is to splice acetate leader to the front of my 2 or 3 problematic polyester films. Nigel Lister actually told me today that polyester can be difficult because of its relative inflexibility compared to acetate. He had experienced similar problems on his GS-1200.

Thanks too, Maurice. Yes, my 'Eumig expert' will take the unit back, and he's very reasonable on repair price. I didn't want to mention his name because a lot of people on this forum will know him, suffice to say I was extremely pleased with the work he did on the last pass, but he couldn't replicate my rotary control switch issue with the lamp remaining 'on' when he had the unit. At that point, the problem was intermittent. However, since then, and with the lamp now on permanently at 12 o'clock position too, I wanted to see if there was a home fix available from fellow forum members. Projector is going back to the shop next week.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted April 25, 2017 08:27 AM

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Glad to hear that the Eumig is going back. I hope the problem can be solved.

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Maurice

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted April 25, 2017 09:50 AM

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Hello Martin, the lamp issue should now be easily solved by your engineer now it is no longer an intermittent fault.
Almost certainly it will be from the cam lobes contacts sticking at the main switch area.

The Polyester issue isn't helped by not having a good cutter to create a correct trimmed leading edge but please do not accept anyone telling you that Myler stock prints can be difficult to thread.
It is only when something is off, that this is true. It remains straighter during thread than acetate and as a result may need a helping hand onto the rear take up spool, but so far as making its way through the gate and both sprockets while forming a correct loop at both top and bottom with no bunching is concerned,..it should cope with this task repeatedly when everything is working correctly and set correctly, time after time.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 25, 2017 10:52 AM

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Martin, remove the front cover and look at the loop former with the rotary switch turned to the 2-o'clock threading position. The loop former should be fully enclosed with the upper opening lined up right beneath the bottom of the gate opening, so tha the film will emerge from the bottom of the gate and directly into the loop former.
The loop former is controlled by a cam on the rotary switch, and the plastic cam follower (part of the forward loop former) often breaks on the 900's (another flimsy plastic part!). f that is the case use my simple 'spring fix' shown here:

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=011200

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Martin Dew
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 204
From: Henley-on-Thames, UK
Registered: Jan 2017

posted April 25, 2017 10:57 AM

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Good points, Andrew. I also noticed that both the countdown leaders of the two worst autoload performers had biased curvature away from the curvature of the reel when sitting on the feeder spindle. This wasn't because the leaders were inverted, but because these particular reels were clearly badly stored by a previous owner. Several leaders had fallen off the spool in the box of this particular title. But even then, I would have thought that they would load happily after I cleaned and tight wound the films before projection.

I'm hoping that the cutter Kevin is kindly sending me might solve the problem, particularly as Paul Adsett on previous threads has said that the S938, in his experience, should load perfectly every time.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted April 25, 2017 11:15 AM

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They should Martin, most definitely. Paul is spot on in his assessment which was ultimately the point I was making.

Many people blame or think it is the particular film, seldom is it truly the case, though of course, some film stocks can prove more problematic than others, especially when it is slit incorrectly, notched badly or shrunken for example.

When you find examples like these, you'll find all machines struggle to one degree or another in projecting them quietly and smoothly.

Overall, it's rare when a film won't project at all I'd say, judging by my own experiences while owning many many different machines nowadays, all Super 8mm.

A machine running truly sweetly, will even allow a film to be threaded with reverse curl through being spliced onto a reel of Film inside out.
I posted a video a while back demonstrating just this point using a T610. It coped admirably on every single occasion both in thread and in run using all kinds of film stock and mixed stock etc etc.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Martin Dew
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 204
From: Henley-on-Thames, UK
Registered: Jan 2017

posted April 25, 2017 12:14 PM

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Well, this would certainly explain a lot, Paul. I read through your Jan. 2017 thread in detail and it does indeed look like the inner loop former is set too far forward, and therefore damaged. I assume this means that a film has to make its own bridge across the air to the sound assembly during autothread. Some films manage the crossing unaided while others clearly don't.

I'm finding it hard to identify the exact position of the breakage point in your second photo of your second post, though.

I will show this to my service engineer. I was fascinated that Edwin Van-Eck chimed in on your posts. Gosh, wouldn't it be fantastic is he started refabricating sound heads too?

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted April 25, 2017 12:16 PM

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It has been requested some time ago, but I don't think this will go any further now very sadly.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Martin Dew
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 204
From: Henley-on-Thames, UK
Registered: Jan 2017

posted April 25, 2017 12:28 PM

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According to his comments on the January 2017 thread, it looks like Van-Eck is going to explore the option. Have you heard differently since?

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted April 25, 2017 12:37 PM

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Not beyond that date Martin, but some time ago now, I had conversations with Edwin regarding these matters.

I even offered to submit some essential information like coil resistances, thickness of coil wire, number of turns, dimensions of shell and core etc etc.

At that time it was concluded it would prove too expensive to now manufacture new magnetic heads for what users would be prepared to pay.

When Wittners had these new, at the price they were which still would be less than manufacturing any now, they didn't exactly fly off the shelves.

Super 8mm collectors appear to largely rely on finding doner machines rather than buying new parts.
This is all very well and good but for the most part it is the equivalent of fitting part worn tyres on your car.
It only buys you a very limited time at best for consumable parts and they never perform like when new.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Martin Dew
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 204
From: Henley-on-Thames, UK
Registered: Jan 2017

posted April 25, 2017 12:52 PM

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I know I would go to some lengths to restore any good machine to factory-new or better than factory-new state. If we can't collectively preserve the machinery, then collecting the films will be in danger of becoming irrelevant. But I know I'm preaching to the choir in this case!

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted April 25, 2017 12:57 PM

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That was my way of thinking regarding the purchase of all new spare parts for my Beaulieu, Martin.
The investment cost me more than buying a second top model, but I wanted to ensure I had the best possible chance of preserving almost new levels of performance for at least the lifetime of my films.

Only time will tell if this proves to be the case.
I haven't needed to use any so far thankfully.

Once the machines die off, one by one, it is only then, that I expect to see many top titled films appear at bargain basement prices frequently.

There may well turn out to be some advantages from returning to this hobby late on, in the midnight hour! [Wink]

[Wink]

[ April 25, 2017, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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