8mm Forum: 1600 Ft Supaspools

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Topic: 1600 Ft Supaspools

John Fields Smith
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 119
From: Liverpool, UK
Registered: Apr 2017

posted August 14, 2017 05:22 PM

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Hello everyone,I put a 16ooft supaspool take up spool on my Elmo st-1200 projector and three quarter way through it started to slow down and then stop turning.I was told the elmo st-1200 could take that capacity.Am i doing harm to my belovered projector,regards John.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 14, 2017 05:28 PM

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You are indeed John.

My advice is not to use these spools on ANY projector or FILM that is of value to you! [Wink]

[Wink]

Here is one mans quote of his experience with these here...
Not mine as i'd be banned! [Smile]

[Smile]

quote:

Some years ago Tony Churcher in the UK produced some spools which he called SupaSpools. They had the same overall size of an Elmo 1200' spool but because they had a small centre it was said they would hold 1600' of film.

Tony was a regular visitor to the Tadleigh Film Convention and I bought a couple of spools from him. However, they were very heavy, even without any film, I'm not sure of the metal used but they were actually bolted together.

I tried them on my Elmo ST1200 but they failed to take up the whole full spool, it just slowed down and then stopped. I complained to Tony who said that perhaps a belt needed renewing.

I finally sold them, and then at Ealing bought a few of the proper Elmo 1200' alloy spools and they are still performing well to this day.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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John Fields Smith
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 119
From: Liverpool, UK
Registered: Apr 2017

posted August 14, 2017 05:32 PM

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Thanks for the quick response Andrew.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 14, 2017 05:33 PM

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...Safe than sorry! [Wink]

[Wink]

An Engineering Masterpiece...Not! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Wink]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYTFY6c9AcI

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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John Fields Smith
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 119
From: Liverpool, UK
Registered: Apr 2017

posted August 14, 2017 05:48 PM

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Ha Ha great video. [Wink]

[Wink]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 14, 2017 05:50 PM

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If there's a wrong way to make a spool.... [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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John Fields Smith
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 119
From: Liverpool, UK
Registered: Apr 2017

posted August 14, 2017 05:55 PM

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Thanks again Andrew,no more of them spools(I thought they were heavy).

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 14, 2017 05:59 PM

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Weigh it in john, it's the only way you will ever get your money back and they weigh about as much as a small hatchback!

Keeerrching!! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Wink]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 14, 2017 07:55 PM

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The Elmo 1200 ft reels are very light, being made from aluminum alloy. I once had some 1200ft reels made from steel and they were about 3X the weight and I stopped using them. I can imagine the weight of 1600ft of film on 1200ft steel reels, something I am sure the GS1200 motors and plastic gears were not designed to handle,

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
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Maurice Leakey
Film God

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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted August 15, 2017 02:23 AM

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The comment quoted by Andrew was made by me.
The fault of Tony Churcher's SupaSpools was that they were just too heavy.

--------------------
Maurice

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 15, 2017 05:57 AM

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As well as being scientifically built incorrectly.

As I'm sure everyone has noticed, a 200ft spool has a smaller hub than 800ft or 1200ft one.
There is a very good reason as to why this is and why this arrangement is completely necessary.
I don't believe Tony must have quite grasped this concept unfortunately, and as such there have been many mechanisms and films damaged as a direct consequence of this unfortunately.

Anybody who believes 1600ft of Super 8mm film can fit onto a 12" diameter spool is sadly mistaken.
Even the Taylor plastic equivalents are not ideal but are far better to use on machines capable of accepting 2200ft spools or larger, than the TC type.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted August 15, 2017 06:38 AM

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we do have a few of the plastic 1600 spools, (Andrew will be aware of this), we have some metal ones but none of the ones we used ever had a take up problem. This could be a sign that the rewind belt is, (not worn) but just showing a little age or possibly the belt and its pulley grooves need a good old clean.
The problem i found with the aluminium ones was the awful noise they made as they reached the final 400 feet or so. The one that Andy sent me was a 100% improvement [Wink]

[Wink]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 15, 2017 07:37 AM

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If only they were Aluminium Tom, then you'd stand half a chance! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Wink]

At the end of the day, the best and largest easily accessible spools you can place on any 1200ft machine are either the Elmo type or as a close second the Posso (Beaulieu) ones.
Anything else is a compromise although the plastic Fuji type also run extremely true and are very nicely made.

I am certain the ones Wittner's sell are outstanding also, but these cost more than the film you place on them in almost all circumstances!

[ August 15, 2017, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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David Ollerearnshaw
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From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

posted August 15, 2017 09:58 AM

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Only tried one of those 1600ft spools, didn't like them. Also had problems with Grasso 1200ft spools (black). They never seemed to run true. I bought some 1200ft from PRC of America these were always OK. Don't think I ever had any plastic ones from Taylor Reel, but have 2400ft metal ones. These are steel and heavy only used them with the Spondon Extender or my Fumeo.

quote:
As I'm sure everyone has noticed, a 200ft spool has a smaller hub than 800ft or 1200ft one.

That in itself opens a few questions. I have some 200 and 400ft spools with small and some with a much larger hub.

I find the larger hub on the take-up is much better.

--------------------
I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Bill Brandenstein
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From: California
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posted August 15, 2017 03:03 PM

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Can anyone post a photo or two of these beasts?

You could always use one on the supply side and a Tayloreel one for takeup, but it sounds like they were too abrasive to be trusted.

Speaking of Tayloreel's version, I've always wondered who came up with the idea of them holding 1600'. I did temporarily get one to do that once: slightly thinner polyester film with no mag stripes to add thickness. To. The. Edge.

More like 1400'.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 15, 2017 03:26 PM

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You're spot on Bill, even on the thinnest of stock, far nearer to 1400ft than ever 1600ft capacity.

I will look through my hard drive to see if I have one of these "beasts" on photo for you. [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Tom Photiou
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From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted August 15, 2017 03:36 PM

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oop, i meant steel, we do have around 20 of the Elmo 1200 spools, these are by far the very best. The only 1600s we have is one supply for reel two of T2, (the one you sent me Andy, part one is on an Elmo 1200), the plastic take up for this one movieing and two wobbly plastic 1600 that slap the projectors arms. Only good for display on the wall in my den. [Wink]

[Wink]

|I have also discovered that brother has two of those black ones to. not sure where or when i bought them [Confused]

[Confused]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 15, 2017 04:03 PM

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I still have quite a few of these when different films have come on them to begin with.
Derann used to to sell loads of these and I bought around 5 in my first stint in the hobby.

The worst thing I ever did was to mount Mary Poppins onto two of these buggers first time around, only for the take up spool to stop abruptly at around 1200ft on my then ST1200!

I had an audience back in those days and the show was forced to end there and then, a disaster!

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Alan Rik
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From: New York City, NY, USA
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posted August 15, 2017 07:48 PM

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Not only that but the ones I had never ran "true". Nothing like hearing the sound of the film coming off the feed reel with a nice little 'fffftttt" sound every 3 seconds or so!

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Bill Brandenstein
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posted August 18, 2017 01:04 PM

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Thanks for the photo, Andrew. It LOOKS cool, but we all know the villains always wear black!

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 18, 2017 01:36 PM

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They were just garbage in every which way possible, Alan and Bill.

No one has yet reminded us all here, of the fifteen minutes required at the end of each reel, to concoct some kind of Heath Robinson device to somehow find a way to feed a super 8mm tail through a 12mm solitary hole bored into the side plates of these spools in order to then get the tail down into the slot inside that tiny tiny core, prior to rewinding.

Anyone who ever mastered the art of doing this repeatedly and successfully should have received a global award for dexterity and could now, probably text 150 words per minute on the world's smallest mobile phone keypad!

They were simply terrible in every which way!
Edward Tweezer hands... eat your heart out. [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Wink]

[ August 18, 2017, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted August 22, 2017 02:34 AM

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You won't believe this but I really like Supaspools, both the 1600ft and the larger Long Play 2.400ft versions.

In the case of the 1600ft ones, there are some that run true (about 1 in 10) from new which I keep for use on the Elmo & Spondon using a penny washer over the spool hub to provide a tighter fit to the projector spool spindle. Only possible on projectors with flip over or screw on spool retaining clips though.

In the case of the really wonky ones I chuck out the hub and use the side plates to make 16mm and 35mm spools for shorts and trailers - the hubs made from smaller 16mm spools or wood in the case of 35mm.

If anyone finds they are considering throwing away their 1600ft Supaspools I will have them - happy to pay you the postage cost (UK only though) plus a couple of quid for each spool. Ideally sent in bulk rather than one at a time!

I never had any problems with the 2,400ft versions especially as they were the only way to watch a full 2400ft feature in one hit on the Beaulieu which normally has a 2,200ft capacity using the genuine largest diameter Beaulieu spools.

I've put my hard hat on ready for your likely responses!

Kevin

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Brian Fretwell
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From: London, UK
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posted August 22, 2017 03:41 AM

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There was an advert in Film for the Collector #12 (Jan 1989) from Tony for these. That one claimed "New improved design, black coated aluminium" so perhaps he was made aware of the weight problems of the originals. £16.95 including box with £2 postage.

I've never tried them so can't say if there were 2 types.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 22, 2017 04:10 AM

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The only ones I have ever received this time around in the hobby, or purchased new originally from Derann circa 1988, were made of very heavy steel.
That's not to say Aluminium ones don't exist as I simply don't know the answer to that one, but what I can say is that if they do, then they are much scarcer than the original type.

Kevin, it is my turn finally to do you a good deed.
I will send you a few in the post once I am off work and get chance to sift them out from my lock up.

I may keep one back to use as a patio umbrella base next summer. For sure a Gale force wind won't shift that umbrella! [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Wink]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurice Leakey
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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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posted August 22, 2017 04:54 AM

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I bought my SupaSpools direct from Tony at the Tadley Film Convention in April 1997. I assumed they were steel as they were so heavy.
It does seem strange that Tony was advertising aluminium spools back in January 1989. If they were so, why paint them black?
Was Tony trying to shift old stock?

--------------------
Maurice

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